Well I guess it's the old story of "you're made your bed now sleep in it".
Hey There...An Introduction to a Married IN nonDub (unbaptised pub)
by HeyThere 17 Replies latest jw friends
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HeyThere
First off, thank you all for the kind comments, tips, and support. This whole experience has been...un-nerving.
As I have been uncovering more TTATT, I have also been uncovering just how much of an impact the JW's had in my relationship with my husband.
To clarify the story further, I became pregnant while my husband and I were dating (he was not active at that time). He lived with me. While I was pregnant, he became active again, and shortly after I had the baby he moved out and basically "ended" the relationship with me officially, yet was still over every day to spend time with us. We went places together, etc. I began studying with one of his family members. I finally became fed up with it all, and I began a relationship with another man - afterall, we were not together, he would not even sit with me at meetings, and was just being...weird. Things blew up. I stopped studying. He faded, and a few years later we did end up back together and married.
At the time it was all happening, as a never been a dub, I had no idea what had been going on. I later found out, after the ish hit the fan, that he had been planning to propose. He never told me, one of his "spiritually weak" family members did. But I still didnt fully understand.
During this past year, I have come to uderstand the dynamic at play, and know what took place now. At it is just effed up! When we first came back I didnt know the details of the religion. Now that I know how crooked and deceitful they are, well, it pisses me off. And he is so blind to it.
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HeyThere
Frazzled said: It is so difficult for born-ins to throw off the WBTS shackles until they see the TTATT. It is very unfortunate that he has fallen under their mind control again. The thing that I have learned is that you have to get him back to putting the family first and get him to realise that the uncondititonal love of his family is better than the conditional sense of belonging at the KH.
Yes, I am learning more about how tied in they are. And his family is JW. That will make it more difficult. I am trying to focus much love and not beat up the topic with him about the dubs. He has brought it up a few times but does get emotional. I hope that our unconditonal love will help him out. Thank you Frazzled.
Nonjwspouse said: The WT is insidious and destructive. It creates or exacerbates deep emotional/mental problems with the members. I wish I knew this before the second date with my decades long "physically out but mentally in" husband. I love him but I would not have gone on the second date if I knew this. Life is too short....
Yes, I am jut realizing just how destructive they are. Controlling jerks! I have had the same thoughts, that if I would have known then I would not have gotten involved...I definately know I would have handled things MUCH MUCH MUCH differently. Your right - life is too short.
Lisarose said: I would not share anything more about what you are learning here, it's just going to cause him to revert to cult mode. I would simply ask leading questions designed to get him to think. Don't react one way or another, let him express his honest feelings. Family study would be perfect for this. Ask questions that he may have to look up the answers to. The Watchtower literature is full of nonsense that they published in the past that they try to hide or minimize.
Good advice Lisa, as he definitely goes into cult mode during some convos. What if I left little printouts around the house? I will be asking some serious questions from the sister I study with. I have already began so it will seem normal to her. I mentioned the sex scandals...she had no idea about them! How could she not know anything about them? oh yeah...its a cult!
Abiblestudent said: I s there a way to help him see that those life-changing events are not good reasons to become more active in the WTBTS? He is convinced tht the dubs have helped him become better. That will be very difficult and I will have to maintain that the principles of living in the bible are good - but the cult mentality and lies is not. I am trying to navigate how to do this...not fun! Does your husband love the WTBTS more than you and his children? He loves us more. I believe he loves us more... If he does love you more, how would your husband react if you and all your children went on a three day vacation far from your home and explained why you do not believe that the WTBTS is God's channel for Christians by relating your individiual stories to him, the questions that caused you doubts about the WTBTS, and that you will never return to the WTBTS? He may not be ready for that yet. I have to plant some seeds now. And let them take hold. He has already admitted there are some beliefs that he does question, so there is hope...
jgnat said: IMHO, your husband is going through a mid-life crisis. His extended family is aiding and abetting this dastardly conversion back to the Witnesses. I suspect also he is like my husband in that he dreads his own mortality, his frailty.
I would agree, but it was more like addiction issues that got out of control resulting in some very poor decision making (ahh, mid-life) which led me to seek divorce. When faced with losing his family, he immediately went on the straight and narrow. That led to him getting back into the dubs, I am sure at the urging of his family, months after he was clean and sober.
Sorry I didnt get a chance to respond to everyone, I do appreciate every single one of the responses.
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ABibleStudent
HeyThere - He is convinced tht the dubs have helped him become better. That will be very difficult and I will have to maintain that the principles of living in the bible are good - but the cult mentality and lies is not. I am trying to navigate how to do this...not fun!
Hi HeyThere, You are right it won't be fun. It may be tolerable if you think of your actions as empowering your husband's authentic persona to overcome his cult persona.
What though-stopping platitudes does your husband regularly use? If you can learn to overcome thought-stopping platitudes that your husband uses it may help his authentic persona to become stronger. The WTBTS teaches JWs to say thought-stopping platitudes like "Where else shall we go?", "Wait on Jehovah.", "JWs are the happiest (or most loving, most trust-worthy, most caring, most giving, etc.) people in the world.", "The end is soo soon.", etc.
Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,
Robert
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HeyThere
Biblestudent: The thought-stopping I have noticed he says/uses most is basically "Well, I can see the positive change in my life and our family, so despite some things thats may be off this is what I believe..." or something about how actions of a few imperfect men will not taint Jehovah or his beliefs...he has also commented about how jw are the only ones out there preaching, etc.
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Londo111
Hey there Tracee (or not Tracee)! Welcome! I hope it works out for you.
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jgnat
joe134, that is exactly the advice the elders gave my hubby every time he went to them for wisdom/support for our marriage. They saw it as doomed from the start. My pastor was much more helpful. That's all right with me. It made it that much easier to advise hubby to stop going to the elders at all for his problems. We worked them out ourselves.
Thank you for the extra insight, Hey There. It seems to me he's neatly divided his personality in to the "worldly" and the "spiritual". The worldly guy throws restraint to the wind, and got in trouble with addictions. The spiritual guy sticks to the straight and narrow, terrified he may stray. Neither man has a lot of confidence in himself, his personal strengths.
I'd reinforce his displays of personal strength and character any chance I got. If he tries to deflect it to Jehovah or his meeting attendance, gently question it. As in "Really? You think you would have gone the other way if you weren't...<attending meetings><going out in field service><marking magazines>?"
He's got an addictive personality one way or the other, doesn't he?
In my therapy class they call this all or nothing thinking.
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ABibleStudent
Hi HeyThere, Have you read Harville Hendrix's book Getting the Love You Want: A Guide for Couples? In his book he describes a technique that he recommends for couples that might also work when combined with Steve Hassan's methods. In Chapter 9 of his book he describes using mirroring, validating, and empathizing to improve communication between couples.
If you can get your husband's authentic persona to think before his cult persona says a thought-stopping platitude, it will help him to start to critically think for himself. How would your husband respond if you asked him the following in an inquisitive and sincere tone of voice when he uses a thought-stopping platitude:
- "Well, I can see the positive change in my life and our family, so despite some things thats may be off this is what I believe..." ==> What are those positive changes in your life and in our family? . . . (wait for him to respond) . . . What are those things that you feel are off? . . . (wait for him to respond) . . . Repeat (mirror) back what he says to verify that you understand him correctly. Validate and empathize with his beliefs. Ask him specific questions that you have a difference of opinion and you feel are not a positive change in his life nor in your family. Ask him what the WTBTS would have to do for him to lose faith in it. Mirror what he says back to him and then ask him, "Has he done any independent research to justify his blind faith in the WTBTS?"
- Something about how actions of a few imperfect men will not taint Jehovah or his beliefs ==> Ask him what acitions have a few imperfect men done to cause him doubts? . . . (wait for him to respond) . . . Repeat (mirror) back what he says to verify that you understand him correctly. Validate and empathize with his beliefs. Ask him what the WTBTS would have to do for him to lose faith in it. Mirror what he says back to him and then ask him, " Has he done any independent research to justify his blind faith in the WTBTS?"
- He has also commented about how jw are the only ones out there preaching, etc. ==> Ask him for more details and why he feels it is so important? . . . (wait for him to respond) . . . Repeat (mirror) back what he says to verify that you understand him correctly. Validate and empathize with his beliefs. Question him about either why he gave you a WTBTS sells pitch or why he feels prosthelytizing is so important. How would he compare it to other volunteer organizations he respects (or you respect). Ask him why other religions that prosthelytize are less attractive than the WTBTS. Mirror what he says back to him and then ask him, "Has he done any independent research to justify his faith in the WTBTS?"
If he says the thought-stopping platitude "Where else shall we go?", correct him and ask him if he meant, " “Lord, to whom shall we go ? You have the words of eternal life." John 6:68. Ask him why he didn't know to follow the teachings and example of Jesus Christ instead of other men?
Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,
Robert