Robert: She asked me if I wanted to continue, and I said I had to think about it. I told her I have been tossing it around in my mind, since the only in-depth perspective I have taken on "the bible" was using that guide published by the Watchtower. I feel that I need a better bible foundation, before I can really discuss things with her fairly. Right now, we have left it open-ended. I told her I would get back to her, and she said she'd check with me later in the week.
She really wants me to go through the Bible Teach book with her again, and I have to consider that. (I have a friend who is severely warning me to stay away from her, for my own protection... and I even told her that. She was very curious about my friend, and her beliefs. I told her I wasn't going to defend someone else's beliefs, as she started picking her apart).
Searcher: I tested the waters yesterday, when I told them I had read some of the recent articles. "I know what kind of things are being said about anyone who dares to question things." (we have agreed that we are only discussing what the bible says, so quoting the Watchtower is not going to work).
I even confessed that we had attended the meetings where they made adjustments last fall. I told her how curious it was, to see people suddenly come to life, when they got to the questions about the preaching WORK.
She quickly jumped in and asked me if she and Miss W had come and told her anything that was not found in the bible. (sigh)
It was somewhere around this time, when she opened the apostate door again for me. She said, "I know there is so much information on the internet... and I can tell you that 95% of it is lies." She also mentioned news or TV shows.
I didn't let her get away with that again. So I said, "Like what? What is one of the lies being spread on the internet?"
She paused to think of her answer. I was hoping for something juicy, but no... "Like that JW's don't belive in Jesus." (sigh again... REALLY? Please use google next time and get back to me with a different lie to defend!)
When she was trying to convince me to go through the Bible Teach book with her, I reminded her that I've done that whole book already. I told her what our experience was, with our first teacher. We got to the end of the book, and stumbled upon a video of an old Christian talk show. John Ankerberg was interviewing a panel of former Jehovah's witnesses. The things they said made our jaws drop. "I remember, I was bawling and saying that there had to be an explanation for the things they were saying..." I could tell they were getting nervous, so I didn't talk about anything that was said. I told her we were hoping that Elder E had a good explanation, so we showed him the video. After about 5 minutes, he said, "Oh, they are APOSTATES!!!" and he turned his back and refused to address anything these people were saying. I said to Miss K, "One of the ladies was of the annointed class. One man had worked for the writitng department, answering people's letters. There was another couple that was prominent in the organization. They were still Christians, and seemed like honest and sincere people. They were JW's! Just because they are no longer JW's, that means that everything they say is a lie???" I told her how Elder E had started going on about how these people were "fornicators! idolators! liars!" Then I did mention that we had asked him if he could get us a copy of the article about 1975, the magazine that the man was holding up... at this point, Miss W jumped in and said, "There were NEVER any predictions made about 1975!" I didn't push it, but I did want to ask her why she was in such a hurry to get baptized in 1973. (I know you are 75'ers... but we won't go there, when I don't have to prove anything in the past was wrong. What you are teaching today has enough holes).
She didn't really answer any of those concerns, but later said, "It sounds like some trust has been violated." I'm pretty sure she was talking about what I had told her about Elder E.
A few times she said, "It seems like there are some FLAGS being raised in your mind about the JW's." I kept hoping that she would say something like, "there's nothing wrong with being in a cult, if it pleases Jehovah..." hahaha I didn't go for the throat.
I do understand that Jesus told them to go and make disciples, and preach to the far corners of the earth. He did not, however, tell them to write it down and report it back to their congregation, so they could keep track. She did mention the numbers that were recorded, about how many were baptized, how many were at pentecost. I added, but there are no specific instructions from Jesus or even Paul, that they should continue to track their efforts and report how much time they are spending spreading the good news. "No, but Jehovah DID use specific men, and the people were supposed to follow their instructions..."
One other thing she brought up, and I think it was when we were still discussing whether Jesus actually told them to call Jehovah "Father," or by his name. She mentioned the Lord's Prayer. (she didn't know the whole thing by heart... I found that interesting). She said, "Do you think people realize what they are actually praying for, when they recite that prayer?" I gave her a puzzled look.
"Our Father, in the heavens, let your name be sanctified, Let your Kingdom come... Do they really think about what they are praying for?"
I said it was a nice prayer to say in unison with a large group, but most people do not probably think about that part of the prayer, no.
She said, "Do you think they realize that they are actually praying for Jehovah to cause destruction to this system, and that so many people are going to die at Armageddon before the Kingdom will be restored?" or something like that... like the people are praying for their own destruction. Did you ever think of that?? (No, most people don't think of the kingdom coming that way... I'd have to agree... haha)
I said, "I like the part about forgiveness, where we ask for forgiveness and remind ourselves to forgive each other. Forgiveness is one of the main points of that prayer, since that is what Christ came here to do for us."
This was leading into our discussion about why they decided to add Jehovah's name to the New Testament (and other changes in their new translation of the NWT).