How do individual JW's justify Jehovah's Old Testament orders to kill little children even babies (amalekites, canaanites)?

by Daniel1555 25 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Daniel1555
    Daniel1555

    In 1. Samuel 15:2-3 we read Jehovah's order to kill "all" Amalekites. It says "you are to put them to death, man as well as woman, child as well as infant..."

    In Deuteronomy 2:32-34 the Israelites say about Sihon. "We captured all his cities at that time and devoted every city to destruction, including men, women, and children. We left no survivor."

    In Deuteronomy 3:3-6 we read what the Israelites did to 60 cities of Bashan: "However we devoted them to destruction, just as we had done to King Sihon of Heshbon, in devoting every city to destruction, including men, women, and children."

    So the bible is clear, that Jehovah God himself ordered the genocides of the Amalekites (because of revenge, as they hindered the Israelites 400 years earlier) and the Canaanites.

    JW and other christian literature justify these accounts of genocide as follows:

    1. Those nations deserved it to be wiped out as they did themselves evil things like child sacrifice.

    2. God has given life. So he can decide for himself to whom he will take life away without us questioning him.

    3. God is just and does always what is right. Who are we to judge his actions. He had his reasons, even if we don't know them.

    How does a JW who believes Jehovah is love in person and that these accounts are "infallible" inspired of god, justify these commands to kill children, even infants?

    I let a few friends give me their opinion:

    1. My wife who separated from me because she believes I am an apostate

    My wife said that Jehovah is above everything else. If Jehovah orders something, no human is in a position to question it but has to follow it. So I asked her if she would kill someone if he orders it. To my horror she said "YES, but he isn't ordering it."

    (When I hear this I keep thinking of "suicide bombers". They are killing themselves and many others just because they "believe" that God is requesting this from them).

    2. A friend

    He thinks that Jehovah sees the whole picture. He will ressurect the killed innocent ones (for example children). He thinks it would have been worse, if those children survived and had to live traumatized without their parents with the Israelites who were the murderers.

    3. Another friend

    He thinks that Jehovah's angel was with the Israelites when they did these things. This angel (he thinks probably Jesus) would have taken care, that these children didn't suffer pain when they were killed (my jaw just dropped when I heard that. Those children and babies were slaughtered by swords. How could they not suffer pain as they were cut in pieces?). He believes they will get a resurrection and go straight to paradise, which would anyway have been better than to live a canaanite life.

    Do you know of other JW justifications of all these cruel OT accounts?

  • cofty
    cofty

    The most common response is that the Amalekites were practicing child sacrifice and desrved to die.

    The irony of murdering all the infants in order to bring an end to child sacrifice never seems to occur to them.

    To be fair to JWs it is the same lame excuse that lots of christians use as well...

  • designs
    designs

    cofty- exactly, Fundie's drag out the same excuses.

  • Heartofaboy
    Heartofaboy

    Hi Daniel, I heard all these same excuses when I was a JW.

    The answer your wife gave you is indeed jaw dropping.

    I've always felt that when god created sentient intelligent creatures he does NOT have the right to do as he wills with them.

  • Pams girl
    Pams girl

    This was something that never sat right with me. The Elderette I studied with could never give me a satisfactory answer, so she brought the visiting C.O's wife one day as a surprise....how nice.....and she explained that the Old Testemement was only applicable until Jesus Randsom. Basically, it didn't matter anymore.

    She didn't stay long.

    Paula

  • Scott77
    Scott77

    Iam also very sceptical. Jehovah of the bible is presented as murderer and an egregious human right violator. Throughout the old testament, he is depicted as misogynist and oppressive. Similar view is reflected in the new testament. Nowonder that the Watchtower socieity of Jehovah's witnesses champion this anti-society perspective.

    Scott77

  • Daniel1555
    Daniel1555

    Of course I am not higher as god. And of course I would never judge god or question his reasons and his love.

    But I cannot "believe" in such a picture of my creator. I believe in god, but I believe he is much different than the bible describes him / her / it. I also believe he created the natural laws in a way that life can evolve (theistic evolution).

    Therefore I don't believe these accounts come from the true creator. I prefer to believe that these accounts about genocide and killings are not infallible and picture not the true creator but just the tribal god of Israel.

    I think that ancient Israel falsely thought, god orders these things. And it was written down.

    Or some leaders of the Israelites have invented god's orders to have a reason to take the land.

  • Calebs Airplane
    Calebs Airplane

    The "justification" I've heard is that Jay-Hoover never makes mistakes, knows what he's doing and will probably resurrect the children after Armageddon...

  • outforever
    outforever

    I said to this christian that I do not believe in a god: that god is very harsh because he condoned the slaughter of innocent babies and people:

    if he can kill like he did in the old testement then change his mind and say in the new testiment that he sent his son for our sins and now we must be all forgiving and loving: this god changes his mind:

    He kills when he wants (even though one of the 10 commandments say "you should not kill") then he sends his son: kills him: but we must not sin: does not make sense to me:

    Then I get this reply back: "We should rather look and see how merciful god is because we are so sinful he could have easierly have zapped us.

    I said what about the babies:

    Reply: " In a fallen world, isn't it possible that god may have to periodically authorize some less-than-ideal measures in order to deter further evil? (goodness can you belive this!!)

    also he said "In a fallen evil world (unlike the one that god created) there are seldom any really happy alternatives, what god eventually condoned here as necessary is certainly not what he originally envisioned as ideal" "he may choose to use any means that he may choose to use as this is self-justified ----- after all he is the creator.

    So you see they are just like the jw's god can no anything and it is right - may low and behold we have sex before marriage - or not do 10 hours field service - or go to another church - then at the end we will all be zapped.......oh unless you are a jw (even if you do 1 hours field service)

  • TheWonderofYou
    TheWonderofYou

    I remember a comment in a bible study magazin. It was explained that the it was a oriental praxis to exaggerate the achievments after a war. So it could even be more true that there was nobody killed at all, but it was only written down in the book of kings / chronicles as a propanda as chiling.

    The historicity of the wars that are mentioned in the Bible books of kings are also discussed. Do you know more?

    Perhaps you can reserach more detail to this subject.

    Greetings

    TWOY

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