No it isnt. The thread is about the OP.
Everything else is ad homenem
Accusing Ex-JWs of Behaving Like JWs Should be Taboo
by cofty 447 Replies latest members private
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Ucantnome
i think there could be a difference acting like a jw and acting like a jw elder.
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Caedes
There are at least a couple of people who have an attitude on this thread.
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Ucantnome
...I am seeing it repeatedly on the forum. I think it is cowardly.
Sometimes it is appears in the form of accusing others of behaving like JW elders.
There are occasions when it is simply a statement of fact - when somebody preaches end-times speculation for example - but to use it as a cheap shot is unacceptable
I found elders somewhat policeman like and so it may not be cowardly to point out that a person is making you feel like they are talking with someone who is like that and it also may trigger very negative feelings in a person to have to remember what it was like talking with elders and so it maybe a valid statement just like one may feel that way if we are reminded of the end time speculation.
I think some have already mentioned this on the thread
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Viviane
That in itself is a somewhat insulting start to your post.
Of course it wasn't. I can't verify whether or not someone here is an adult, all I have to go on is their claim and to accept that as true. Are you so thin skinned that accepting what someone claims about themselves as true has now become an insult?
You are very erudite Viviane, but I don't think there are many on here who will take counsel from you on not being insulting.
You have demonstrated a persistently severe and derogatory tongue, seemingly enjoying the broad extent of dismissive put downs you have in your quiver of vocabulary.I've once insulted somene here on purpose and all it took was the observing reality to do it. I've never ridiculed anyone or dismissed their education. I rarely comment on anything other than the substance of a post unless one of the regulars decides to attack me for whatever reason. The problem is that their kicks are clothes in flowery dress, mine have spiked boots on.
If that's pain, too bad, they should learn not to kick.
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cofty
The following is way off topic but needs to be said....
I've never ridiculed anyone or dismissed their education. I rarely comment on anything other than the substance of a post unless one of the regulars decides to attack me for whatever reason. The problem is that their kicks are clothes in flowery dress, mine have spiked boots on. If that's pain, too bad, they should learn not to kick. - Viv
That describes the problems I am experiencing as well.
I never attack people or deliberately insult them but frequently get attacked in the most personal and insulting ways by believers. Often it suits me best to ignore it but if it persists I prefer to deal with it. In doing so I don't pull my punches. I don't view turning the other cheek more than once to be a virtue. As far as I am concerened that's the end of it - I rarely hold a grudge. Sometimes I will send a PM offering an olive branch but nobody else sees that.
In a different context it's an evolutionary stable strategy that William Hamilton and Robert Axelrod dubbed "tit for tat" or "tit for two tats".
The problem with it is that sometimes the original culprit whinges about it endlessly, and before long people who can't be arsed to check the facts believe them. Too bad.
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GrreatTeacher
This may or may not be relevant since I haven't read all 17 pages, but I think that people can misunderstand each other over the word "ignorant."
It simply means lacking knowledge and is not a personal insult.
There is an informal use, especially in the US, as meaning rude. While calling someone rude might be an insult, calling someone unknowledgeable isn't.
Sometimes I feel like we are talking past each other over the use of this word.
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Viviane
There is an informal use, especially in the US, as meaning rude. While calling someone rude might be an insult, calling someone unknowledgeable isn't.
I've taken the effort to be clear when I use the word that it's not calling a person ignorant, it's always "you have no knowledge of the subject you are talking about". It's a shame some people won't bother to understand what they are reading.
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Oubliette
Viv: It's a shame some people won't bother to understand what they are reading.
Amen, to that, but it requires work and many people are just too damn lazy!
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Pacopoolio
The big issue is that people who:
a) haven't had much formal education on logic, reasoning, and proper argument structure and debate, or
b) haven't picked up these things from osmosis (diffusion, technically) from debating with educated people over the years...
...have no idea how to structure an argument or debate. They don't know what fallacies are, or don't recognize them, view attacks on arguments and attacks on self as the same thing, and don't distance their emotions from the argument enough to rationally see both sides of the discussion. They also are more likely to argue just to appear right as opposed to genuinely challenging their own beliefs against others, and are therefore more likely to devolve to ad hominems or pointless "joke" attacks at the end to attempt to "win" in their own minds.
I think this manifests itself differently with certain members here because there's a gulf between people who left or didn't get involved in the religion because it didn't rationally make sense, and those that did so strictly for emotional reasons and then tried to rationalize around them (ie. an elder made them mad, they latched on to "apostate" reasoning as an attack to support them being mad at that elder, and left strictly because of that. Or they wanted to become a hotshot elder, got turned down, and started their own thing in response). The two groups are those who I see the most arguments back and forth from that are basically brick wall arguments - the first is using reason, the second group is just trying to feel like they're "winning" or are lashing out after feeling insulted. Normally from having dumb arguments (note that calling an argument dumb is not calling a person dumb), that are easily and rightfully dismissed and taking it personally.