Ucant - Yes of course. The deciding of factor of what is wrong is not popularity however. Even if a hundred posters protest their opinion loudly it should make not slightest difference to our views. But if just one person offers a single compelling piece of evidence to the contrary we ought to reconsider our most cherished beliefs.
Accusing Ex-JWs of Behaving Like JWs Should be Taboo
by cofty 447 Replies latest members private
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new hope and happiness
I think if you start a thread its your responsibility to keep it on constructive. If not thats the J.W mentality always like your a halo- above other peoples heads. Why not be like a biro? sometimes your blue and sometimes red, I mean to perfectly honest with you readers, i think the best way to end a " going nowhere positive thread" is say " thank you we had a lovely time" but now ive got better things to do like the " washing up".
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Ucantnome
i agree with you cofty its not popularity.
usually helps to talk those who are respected in there field of study if you want info on biology a biologist or theology a theologian
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Oubliette
FHN: People who are POWs or even innocent citizens who have been held captive in concentration camps, they will always, on some level be affected by their experiences. We are the sum of our experiences.
This is a great point, and I think explains why some of us are so offended by being labeled as "acting like a JW." Not only is it generally NOT true, it's offensive because we have left the cult, often at great personal cost.
I appreciated how the rest of your post supported your point.
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new hope and happiness
itas a good point FHN made " ....people held in concentration camps, they will on some level always be held by the experience......." But what about the perpertraters? What abot the Ghetto Policemen....they also on some level will always be held by the expereience". And thats my point ..and this site asks that people belive and fill obligations to the belives of " Cofty" who started the post.
Myself i am indifferent to the " subject" but the next time i am on this thread, AND i WILL BE, because these threads always live and live....but i think they miss the point. ....because they dont show feelings and love to the real " target audience" this site was created for...those needing SUPPORT leaving being J.W.s
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FlyingHighNow
those needing SUPPORT leaving being J.W.s
Watch out, the people who insist that this forum is not for support, might start their stuff.
When you're being supportive to recovering people, it doesn't mean you will never tell them the truth, especially when they need to hear it. Do you tip toe around a recovering alocholic, afraid you might offend? There are times that is the worst thing you can do. You don't want to be an enabler.
Its a fact: some of the people talking of being offended, can themselves be the rudest, most callous people, when it comes to other recovering JWs and their new views. Why is it okay for these posters to insult and badger people they don't agree with? Is it okay? Have they tried to justify it often?
Cofty, you have agreed, that it is not always inaccurate, or for the purpose of insult, when someone points out a residual JW behavior.
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snare&racket
The big issue here is atheist v christian, let's spell it out for what it is!
On top of that there is a false assumption that those delving in science and higher education think they are awesome and know EVERYTHING, but speakingfor myself that could not be further from the truth. The more I learn the more I realise how little we do know. How little I know.
The problem is that there are some things that we know through science, for sure. When posters here explain that someone has said something scientifically incorrect and that we know their opinion on physics/biology/chemistry is simply wrong, people take offence. But they are getting offended with data!
Science is an authority just as elders were our authority, the elders were wrong and spouting out the info fed to them by Watchtower. Because of what we were told about Science, many see science as something that once said the earth was flat, something that is always changing facts and can't be trusted. So it seems equivelant when someone talks with authority on a subject with science , to an elder or JW talking. But what you were told about science was wrong.
We have all left now and we have to tune into real life. We can't know everything about everything, but we do at least know what we know so far. When someone says 'you are wrong about 'x' because we know.....' it is NOT personal. It is not an argument from authority and it is not an opportunity to start attacking them as a person. They are simply relating data. If they don't like the data or refute it fine, argue the data don't start making it personal.
There is a disconnect here between those that hold science and data as valuble and those who perhaps don't yet understand the sceintific method and the basic sciences, or never wish to know these things. The problem is when someone without the science backround announces an anti-scientific idea and the science peeps turn up and post why the idea doesn't work. It is seen as a personal assault on ideas. In reality the person is invoking science and even if they choose to stand by it, despite the real data, there are people that visit this site as JW anonymous lurkers that deserve to hear the science too. This is a forum after all.
But this all soon turns personal, usually with someone complaining about HOW something was said to them. Doubtless sometimes it isn't said with a barrell of love because this is a forum, but I am yet to see a reply to an OP with barrells of venom. To be honest, really honest... to me it seems the last resort of someone out of their depth. They have been out-scienced so can't formulate a scientific response so they mount a personal defence. Instead of am open chat about the information, it becomes HOW the data was communicated. Such pettyness is for god and small children.
This does not make any of us unpleasant, we are all humans, in various stages of deconversion and becoming informed. Some are content with simply leaving WT, some seek higher ed, some seek ideas and theories, some seek mysticism, some seek other religions. Of coure we will have different ideas, but let's at least be affable when doing so. But if someone replies in a less than affable way, be grown up.....ignore it. Everyone else will see it.
Also lets be adult, if an answer to a message in a forum really upsets you, maybe you are not cut out for forums. This is not a kingdom hall where everyone offers fake love, fake care.... you won't get a counter argument iced in 'agape' sugar here. But tackle the argument, debate, enjoy the conversation....
i have learned much here.
Snare x
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FlyingHighNow
Maybe you had a pre-JW mindset and were therefore susceptible to joining up :-)
Yeah, maybe so. Think JWs would like my views that you don't have to be married to engage in sex, nor do you have to be of opposite genders?
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caliber
Can anyone on this site honestly admit that after 10, 20, 30 or more years that their thinking patterns and world
views are not still in some way at least , influenced by JW mentality ? Even if it is to create a totally opposite view ?
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new hope and happiness
Flyinghighnow|- thank you for your reply, and i agree 10 % i mean 100% with what you say. i mean you can write and say things i wish i could write and say.
Anyway i have been on this site a year, and ive always found it very positive. I have contributed on only 2 controversial posts this and " what is spirit". What i noticed is make a point its ignored people are not interested in 3rd party comments.
But at least i have been able to contribute. And ive had a smashing time on this thread.
And i hope the silly posts i started really made lurkers think. Ive got plenty more....heres the next one " Dont fight with fellow posters, find a more effectpive use of leisure time"