by metatron 29 Replies latest jw friends
Patricia, for me, at least, the pain of realizing I had wasted much of my life made sticking around impossible. Also, my kids lives were at stake and I had to make a start on getting them out. What you are suggesting would be asking more than is reasonable, for very little gain.
OTOH, I do think people should DA, not let themselves be DF'd, whenever possible, to make a point to those who know them.
Patricia,
You should be following your own advice:
because to me it would be strategy to stay in especially if you are a brother. In secular war the object is to infiltrate the enemy, find out their plans and sabatage them. Aren't we doing exactly what the organization wants us to do when we leave.Why don't you start going to meeting now and do what you are telling others to do?
Join the Watchtower or you will die.
Only Jehovah's Witnesses have the TRUTH all other religions EVIL and from the Devil.
You must beleive the Watchtower or you're going to die a painful death forever, isn't that really GOOD NEWS?
I have slowly eased two of my grown children away from the organization and the other one is very lukewarm. I also have three baptized siblings who were brought up in the truth and now have "faded" away. This happened before I discovered this site. There are different scenerios. After reviewing my own experiences I now have a different persepective of things. If I was a brother and was married with a wife and children going to meetings, I would never completely cut myself off from them by either da or being df. I would keep the lines of communication open use every opportunity I could to scatter some seeds of doubt. If I was a single brother I would (as I stated earlier) try and progress right to the top and gain the trust of the organization to expose everything I could. If I were a sister without family or relatives that I could lure away then I would fade. Sad to say but sisters really can't do much. If you are an "independent" thinker you are promptly reprimanded and marked.
I may be way off base, but if our silent lambs or the blood issue in Calgary doesn't open eyes then I think we need some joint strategy to bring this organization to its knees.
Patricia interesting points. If I were sure I was going to remain married I would go back but for different reasons. Mostly to be a source of refreshment to those still in and to become an elder and prevent as many dfing as possible.
But my purpose in leaving isnt to get people out. My purpose in staying away isnt to get people out. I know most here consider christianity a fine thing and left because JW doctrine did not agree with the bible. I simply left because they did not fess up to their mistakes and I realized the claim that they were a religion of truth from a god of truth were not true. I researched. Most have not done the same research of christianity that they have done of the witnesses. If they had there is almost no one conceivable reason in my mind that they could remain a christian.
But it is not my duty to inform them of this. Nor is it my duty to save them from possibly one of the most wicked institutions on the planet (christianity). The fabled founder of christianity is claimed to have stated "Cast not your pearls before swine lest then trample them, then turn and rend you also." Which is exactly what occurs when you try to save people, even subtly, who do not wish to be saved.
My soul has been given to the Goddess. She sent her daughter to earth to die for my sins. I have accepted her into my heart. And, unlike christians, her doctrine doesnt force me to tell anyone about it. At the moment that anyone is ready, she draws such a one to her. And then she sends them to me. Not before will I lift a finger for they are simply not ready.
Has anyone seen "And Justice for All" starring Al Pacino?
Imagine this...
An overseer on stage at a district convention/assembly pulling this stunt for all to see, and you know there will be folks there with cameras, video cameras and tape recorders.
During his talk he deviates from his scripted talk exposing how the organization has handled child motlestation cases and how Jehovah's witnesses aren't the happiest people on earth. WHOHOO!!!
I can see them (the powers that be) scurrying to haul him off the stage all the while telling him and the masses that he is out of order. I can see the overseer desperately struggling and shouting saying, "I'm out of order?!!! You're out of order, he's out of order!! (pointing to various ones in the organization that he and many others feel that are responsible for the crisis at hand, the pedophile issue) The whole goddamn watchtower organization is out of order!!!!!!!
They'll be talking about this one for weeks to come.
Peace
If I was a single brother I would (as I stated earlier) try and progress right to the top and gain the trust of the organization to expose everything I could.
Don't we already have the benefit of one who's done just that. Ray Franz.....Crisis of Conscious.........????? HELLO !!!!!!!
The WT hasn't changed from they were some 20 years ago. The core elements are still there, just reorganized in legal mumbo jumbo. They're like the singer Madonna, always repackaging themselves but basically spewing the same ole s***.
Staying inside and torturing your conscious only to make a grand exit when you've perceptively reached the top sounds good on paper especially when you're suggesting someone else do it, but what about the life and time wasted by the person actually subjecting themself to such a course. The trade off would be negligible, the gain short term at best. Just look at what they're doing to Bowen and gang. With the WT propaganda machine running full steam for the borg, no matter how long you were in or what you've accomplished for them, character assination would be the order of the day for most members.
Madonna kicks ass man.
Well, I don't know if the bethel speaker was monitoring his talk. Every talk has an outline (it's true) and I guess the privileged have the insider skills to at least have an outline of the talk before its given at any convention (I know I swiped an outline of a talk before a brother gave it). I know if I had to go to a district convention it would probably be interesting to have an outline of the talk before hand (also, so I could show it off as well). Personally, I took notes at all the conventions because it was the only way I stayed awake....
For a long time their has been brother to make sure you stick with the outline at DCs. The WT is paranoid about someone not giving a word for word rendition of manuscript talks.
After the great apostacy of the early 1980's they even started to have brothers in the local KH make sure that the public talk followed closely the outline. Few elders complied (only the most theocratic).
AT that time their used to be brothers that made up their own 55 minute talks but these were not allowed anymore after Franz left Bethel.
Join the Watchtower or you will die.
Only Jehovah's Witnesses have the TRUTH all other religions EVIL and from the Devil.
You must beleive the Watchtower or you're going to die a painful death forever, isn't that really GOOD NEWS?
out4good3
You know your comment is intersting. When Brother Franz was df I was pioneering at the time. I nor anyone in my congregation which was quite large ever heard anything about it. After reading about his experiences in the last year I've gently inquired of some of my relatives and exhusband who is still an elder if they new Ray Franz. Noone had ever heard of him. Your sarcasm is that of one who did't go through the 60's and 70's era of being part of the organization. The world thinks of Jimmy Jones as being a completely crazy fanatic who was the instigator of a mass suicide of his followers. They honestly believed what he was telling them and were willing to die for their convictions. Do you think if the government had of known of this suicide to glory plan that they wouldn't have infiltrated Jones organization and prevented it from happening?
Those of us that were in the truth during the "stay alive till "75" era sincerely believed that Armegeddon was on its way. It was the spiritually strong not the weak that were willing to sell the homes and belongings and move to were the need was great to "save lives" before it was to late.
Things had changed radically since Brother Franz was in the organization. Most people that are on this board have a huge motivation to see this organization end. It might be spiritual, it might be because of the shunning of our families, it might be from revenge, it might be to see justice finally done. But I still think that if there was a small spiritally organized band of brothers that could infiltrate the organization and expose it "before" they are disfellowshiped it might work. You have to agree that what our four silent lambs have done working in a coordinated, fearless attack has produced national coverage and feedback. Why not keep it up with for example the blood case in Calgary which will go natinal when it hits the supreme court.
