recent watchtower article condemning catholic mediator between men and god

by oldregretfuljwx2 23 Replies latest jw friends

  • oldregretfuljwx2
    oldregretfuljwx2

    I'm researching for an article on religious torture, how the UN condemns physical and psychological torture and how that applies to witness shunning and ran across the information below on mediatorship.

    <a href="http://imgur.com/RrQt8ei"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/RrQt8ei.jpg" title="Hosted by imgur.com" />

    [URL=http://imgur.com/RrQt8ei][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/RrQt8ei.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

    This is from Watchtower June 2014 article entitled Three 16th Century Truth Seekers What Did They Find

    I don't know if I did image links right but it's a inserted information chart in the article and the part I wanted to pass on states:

    CHURCH TEACHING:

    Saints may be venerated as intercessors with God.

    WHAT THE SCRIPTURE SAYS:

    “There is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus.”—1 Timothy 2:5.
    If it's wrong for catholics to be the mediator between God and men why is it ok for the faithful slave to be mediators?

    there are several watchtower quotes around where they claim the faithful and discreet slave (governing body) are the mediators between men and god/jesus. here's one.

    "Likewise, the Greater Moses, Jesus Christ, is not the Mediator between Jehovah God and all mankind. He is the Mediator between his heavenly Father, Jehovah God, and the nation of spiritual Israel, which is limited to only 144,000 members." Worldwide Security Under the "Prince of Peace" (1986) pp.10-11

    how is that different than the catholic church of the time?

    (Once I get the article on torture done I'll post it here)

  • oldregretfuljwx2
    oldregretfuljwx2

    link to the jw.org article http://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/wp20140601/reformation-truth-seekers/#?insight[search_id]=22ef1e06-e365-4de6-a3a3-d28a110b6ff0&insight[search_result_index]=0

  • designs
    designs

    Revelation 8:4 is used as the basis.

  • neverendingjourney
    neverendingjourney

    In Apocalypse Delayed James Penton argues that the Witnesses, while giving lip service to the sola scriptura concept of Protestantism actually bear a closer resemblance to the Catholic Church, paricularly in their authoritarian structure. Their elevation of the governing body above all is strikingly similar to the magesterium of the Catholic Church, but the Witnesses would never admit to it.

    After giving it some thought, I can't say I disagree.

  • Perry
    Perry

    Excerpt From my online booklet on Mediators. - Some quotes you might find useful

    Modern “Mediators”
    As pointed out earlier, on ONLY two occasions
    (once through Moses and once through Jesus) God
    has set forth his terms to commute the death
    sentence due each person. In both instances the
    mediator of each agreement (covenant) was chosen
    directly by God and that position was, (and is) not
    open to modification in any way; it is exclusive.
    Should that Mediator be rejected for any reason or
    more than one mediator be looked to; in that case
    God’s offer for a commutation of sentence is off the
    table and a sinner is on his own before the Judgment
    God. And make no mistake; Jehovah God’s wrath is
    renewed each day toward the wicked. (Psalm 7:11)

    It is the goal of many Catholics and Jehovah’s
    Witnesses to please God. This is a worthy desire.
    However, most are not aware of how the official
    teachings of their organizations relate to the
    Mediatorship of Jesus Christ. As we learned earlier
    in this study, that one point is critical to God. So in
    order to clear this up we’ll print a few of those
    official teachings here:

    Catholic Catechism #969 “Therefore the Blessed
    Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of
    Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix.”

    Clearly the Catholic Church has lifted titles for the
    Holy Spirit and applied them to Mary. The title
    Mediatrix is the feminized version of Jesus‟ title as
    Mediator. The RCC makes Mary a co-mediator.

    Catholic Catechism # 882 The Pope, Bishop of
    Rome and Peter's successor, "is the perpetual and
    visible source and foundation of the unity both of the 8
    bishops and of the whole company of the faithful.
    For the Roman Pontiff, by reason of his office as
    Vicar of Christ, and as pastor of the entire Church
    has full, supreme, and universal power over the
    whole Church, a power which he can always
    exercise unhindered."

    The Pope sees himself as the visible head of God’s
    Kingdom on earth as opposed to the invisible
    authority of Jesus Christ. However, early Christians
    walked by faith, not by sight. (2 Cor. 5:7).
    Additionally, one of the Pope’s titles is the Vicar of
    Christ. The word vicar comes from the Latin word
    vicarius meaning substitution. The on-line version
    of the Pocket Catholic Dictionary defines the Vicar
    of Christ as: “The Pope, visible head of the Church
    on earth, acting for and in the place of
    Christ”. However, this is in serious conflict with
    scripture. Can there be two heads on one body?

    … Christ is the head of the church: and he is the
    saviour of the body. - Ephesians 5:23

    1994 Catholic Catechism Paragraph # 82 - As a
    result the Church, to whom the transmission and
    interpretation of Revelation is entrusted, does not
    derive her certainty about all revealed truths from
    the Holy Scriptures alone. Both Scripture and
    Tradition must be accepted and honored with
    equal sentiments of devotion and reverence.

    Here the Catholic Church demands their own
    traditions be revered as if they are the word of God.
    Of course these traditions include the sharing of
    Christ as Mediator with others.

    There are many other examples of the Catholic
    Church appropriating titles, terms, and authority
    reserved only for Jehovah, Jesus, the Holy Spirit,
    and God’s Word the Bible. But the main point for
    this discussion is that the RCC teaches that there are
    numerous mediators that can intercede for your
    salvation including saints, popes, Mary, priests etc.
    This is a direct affront to God’s kind provision of
    Jesus Christ as Mediator. Remember that the issue of
    exclusivity was settled in Numbers Ch. 16.

    It is also instructive to be aware of how Popes have
    historically treated Christians who recognized Jesus
    as their sole Mediator and Scripture as their
    sole authority. Contrary to what you might have
    been aware of, Europe was already full of perhaps
    millions of Christians when the RCC sent out
    “missionaries” beginning in the 4th
    and 5th
    centuries.
    You can internet search YOU TUBE with the term:
    Catholic Inquisition for a truly mind boggling
    history lesson on the plight of those who historically
    believed in SALVATION BY FAITH ALONE as
    opposed to salvation through an organization. This
    one-hour video is produced by
    www.BereanBeacon.org. For a more in-depth look
    at Catholic doctrine, please visit:
    www.whateverycatholicshouldknow.com

    While the Roman Catholic Church seems content
    with merely sharing Christ’s Mediatorship, the
    Watchtower Corporation has completely severed
    Christ’s Head as Mediator from off the body of the
    congregation. The February 15, 1991 issue of the
    Watchtower, pgs. 15-20 paragraph 11; makes this
    announcement:

    11
    Nevertheless, in a preliminary way, the great
    crowd have already “washed their robes and made
    them white in the blood of the Lamb.” (Revelation
    7:14) Christ does not act as Mediator of the new
    covenant toward them, yet they benefit from this
    covenant through the work of God’s Kingdom.

    The Watchtower here is teaching that a person can
    be clean before God without Christ as their
    Mediator. They say sins are forgiven in some sort of
    “preliminary way” but fail to explain from the bible
    exactly what that way is. What is likely meant is in
    the last sentence of the quotation above: yet they
    benefit from this covenant through the work of
    God’s Kingdom.

    In other words, they are saying that the works of
    congregation members in the visible part of God’s
    Kingdom (their organization) is what “benefits” or
    saves them. Read it again. In one sentence it is
    claimed that members (in an unexplained
    preliminary way) washed their robes in the blood of
    the Lamb and in the very next sentence they claim
    that they are cut off from the New Covenant which
    is the very agreement that provides that clean
    standing. (Revelation 1:5) If it is true, that “Christ
    does not act as Mediator of the new covenant
    toward them” then, who does act as 9
    mediator ofthe New Covenant toward them? Surely
    a Jehovah’s Witness would not try to stand before
    God on their own would they? There is no other
    access to Jesus’ blood that washes us clean accept
    through the New Covenant. Biblically, it just doesn’t
    exist.

    This is the one question that every Jehovah’s
    Witness should ask themselves: Using only the
    bible, how can I show that my sins are forgiven?
    Since you are not part of the New Covenant and are
    cut off from Jesus the Mediator, how could your sins
    possibly be forgiven? Are you counting on: we-ask-
    all-this-in-Jesus-name-amen, at the end of your
    prayers? How is that different than other mechanical
    prayers? Remember, when Jesus said he would grant
    requests made in his name, he was speaking to his
    New Covenant members, not those outside of that
    agreement.

    Many times our Jehovah’s Witness friends and
    neighbors get a little miffed when they hear the
    accusation that they don’t believe in Jesus. So for
    clarification: Christians aren’t saying that Witnesses
    don’t believe in the historical figure of Jesus;
    Christians are simply pointing out that they don’t
    believe in Jesus as Mediator for them. And hence
    biblically, a Jehovah’s Witness has nothing
    preventing his/her judgment before the Great White
    Throne for their sins.
    For there is one God, and one mediator between
    God and men, the man Christ Jesus
    - 1 Tim. 2: 5

    Unofficially, the Watchtower Corporation, like the
    Catholic Church sees itself as a co-mediator with
    Christ. This is clear to anyone honestly observing.
    Just as Moses “stood between the dead and the
    living” and negotiated peace between the people and
    God, the Watchtower Corporation sees itself as the
    only thing standing between life and death for
    people. Watchtower witnessing work teaches a
    salvation through their organization as opposed to
    exclusively through Jesus:

    The Nov. 15, 1981 Watchtower page 21 reads: “the
    [Watchtower] witness yet includes the invitation to
    come to Jehovah’s organization for salvation”
    By contrast, this is the witness message taught by
    the apostles:

    the gospel of Jesus Christ - Mark 1:1
    the gospel of the grace of God. - Acts 20:24
    my gospel … the preaching of Jesus Christ - Romans
    16:25
    the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: - 2
    Thessalonians 1:8
    our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death,
    … the gospel - 2 Timothy 1:10

    Similar to the Catholic Church, the Watchtower also
    applies exclusive titles of Jesus to their organization.
    Members are socialized to refer to their organization
    as “The Truth”. This is a title taken directly from
    Jesus Christ as the Word of God:

    Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and
    the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. -
    John 14: 6

    Also like the Catholic Church which claims its
    traditions and unique teachings is equal to that of the
    bible, the Watchtower views its teachings as part of
    the bible with the same authority:

    Watchtower December 15, 2008, pg 28 – “Our
    coming to know „the truth‟ - the entire body of
    Christian teachings that has become part of the
    Bible - and adhering to it are essential for our
    salvation”.

    Simply put, the Catholic Church, the Watchtower
    Corporation, and others have made the deadly
    mistake that other foolish people have made; they’ve
    added their traditions, good works, and another
    mediator to “Jesus the author and finisher of our
    faith”. (Heb. 12:2) Because of this, they have
    nullified God’s offer of salvation for some. (Mark
    7:13) There is only one way into God’s favor:

    I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into
    the sheepfold , but climbeth up some other way, the
    same is a thief and a robber…Verily, verily, I say
    unto you, I am the door of the sheep. - Jn.10: 1-7

  • zeb
    zeb

    ORJ: I really wish to see your thesis when it is completed. NB: this nano second that the UN even inquires of the wts about their practice of shunning theynwill scream from their rooftops, "Persecution, persecution!"

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    My father's particular specialty at Bethel and after he left was hatred of the Roman Catholic Church. He told me much hateful info about Cathoicism. As I meet Roman Catholic priests I discover that the church never taught what my father claimed. His family was Russian Orthodox. The family priest said he was heartbroken at my grandmother's young death. He could not explain why God would allow such suffering. Knock, Knock with a fifty point response. Conversion. Now that I have a better idea of what the church teaches I am amazed at how much guiltier than the Witnesses are. I don't see any benefits to society from the Witnesses. The Vatican was full of art that brought me to tears. I stood inside the catacombs. There was a feeling of tradition and continuity. One of the Christian women in the catacombs was very tall. The priest kept looking to me every time he said "tall lady." Soon everyone on the tour kept looking at my height.

    I am not alone. When I was ill the chaplin was Anglican. He was showing me how to use the rosary. It is hardly rote memorization. I mentioned my shock to him. He said that the Protestants made up a lot of stuff to bash the Catholic Church.

  • Focus
    Focus

    recent watchtower article condemning catholic mediator between men and god

    __

    Focus

    ("WT-Madness" Class)

  • oldregretfuljwx2
    oldregretfuljwx2

    neverendingjourney i agree totally.

    thanks Perry for that information.

    Zeb, this article will be a while in coming. Just reading about human rights and the UN stance on torture it's very easy to see a human rights issue in the watchtower's enforced shunning and familial seperation and the blood on their hands from the anguished suicides of former members.

    Take away the shunning and give me my family back and I'd never speak about the religion again in my life.

    Band on the Run, I've learned more about Catholism since I left the jws. I was ill informed as a jw as to their beliefs. I'm 100% non theist now but it's interesting to gain new insight on how misinformed I was as a jw. And I was deep in the religion when it was at the height of it's catholic bashing. Any older ones may remember the theocratic minestry school lessons on how to talk to catholics to place the blue truth book.

  • designs
    designs

    Ah there's a book...

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