recent watchtower article condemning catholic mediator between men and god

by oldregretfuljwx2 23 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  jwfacts

  Great find, what total hypocrisy. The following quote shows how the great crowd need to be united with the 144,000 (JW saints as it were) to benefit from the mediator.

  "They recognize that they are not spiritual Israelites in the new covenant mediated by Jesus Christ, nor part of the "chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation."-1 Pet. 2:9. Yet they do benefit from the operation of the new covenant. They benefit from this just as, in ancient Israel, the "alien resident" benefited from residing in among the Israelites who were in the Law covenant.-Ex. 20:10; Lev. 19:10, 33, 34; Rev. 7:9-15. To keep in relationship with "our Savior, God," the "great crowd" needs to remain united with the remnant of spiritual Israelites." Watchtower 1979 Nov 15 p.27

  I'll add this 2014 comment to jwfacts.com/watchtower/mediator.php
• 

  designs

  But you see this whole Protestant/Evangelical notion is built on a flase premise to begin with- The "New Covenant" means what Paul says it means and not what a Jew says it means.

  Paul is a proven liar with regard to all things Messianic so why should anyone put credence in his ideas on a Mediator.
• 

  objectivetruth

  The Watchtower's Doctrine on Christ being the Mediator for Annointed ones Only is not Entirely Un-Scriptural.

  Christ does only Mediate for individuals that have been Baptized by Holy Spirit / Born Again.

  Hebrews 9:15 " For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance--now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant."

  The Watchtower is Correct when they Say that "Christ is only the Mediator for Annointed Individuals" .. However if they say that Annointed Individuals are Mediators for Individuals whom are not Annointed, that is Un-Scriptural. There are only 2 Classes of Followers of Christ The first class is the Wheat (Annointed) The Second class is the Weeds false Followers of Christ.

  This doesn't really answer your question in anyway, but perhaps it will mean something to someone.
• 

  Crazyguy

  All who follow christ are of the body of christ and therefore are anointed (he was the only true anointed one). The judgement by christ and the angels would be the time to separate the wheat from the weeds and we are not supposed to judge...
• 

  Perry

  The one scriptural passage that unlocks the mess that the Watchtower tries to make of a beautiful offer of God is Mathew 26: 27, 28

  From the NWT:

  "And taking a cup, he offered thanks and gave it to them, saying: “Drink out of it, all of you, for this means my ‘blood of the covenant,’ which is to be poured out in behalf of many for forgiveness of sins."

  Here you have Jesus (1) offering the cup to everyone, which is (2) a symbol of his blood sealed covenant to (3) forgive sins of the covenant members. This is what makes a person clean, the life of Jesus for yours ("the just for the unjust"-1 Peter 3:18)...... and not by their works, "lest any man should boast". The blood covenant washes a person and makes them white like snow before a court of law even though their sins be crimson.

  NOW, lets look at the condition of the "Great Crowd". Are they declared righteous by the "benefits" they receive by being in association with the Watchtower corporation? Noooooooooooooo

  From NWT:

  Rev. 7 After this I saw, and look! a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations ........ “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb

  The great crowd of tribulation saints get declared righteous the EXACT same way EVERYBODY previously did .... the blood of the lamb, only accessible by THE COVENANT. This is the ONLY deal offered mankind in the New Testament (Covenant) Scriptures. Destinations, functions, rewards may differ....but the mechanism for avoiding judgment is the SAME.

  This is the true pupose of the WT, to prohibit the blood covering of Christ so that members are not declared righteous but must face judgment for their own sins at the Great White Throne. No one survives this judgment. Everyone gets judged, either vicariously (with a free pass) or in person....the choice is yours.

  Satan knows that Judgment where he himself is headed and there is no savior for him. He wants to take the children of Adam, that he so jealously hates, with him.
• 

  designs

  Literal "Satan" and "Adam"
• 

  designs

  In Judaism one doesn't need a "Mediator" between themselves and God, "Mediator" is another false teaching Paul laid on the gullible Gentiles. In Judaism "Satan" is an agent with God, Jesus and Paul turn Satan into an adversary of God. "Original sin" was an invention of Paul which he ties his invented messiah with.

  All religions are traps to progress but Paul and Jesus in particular stand out as charlatans of the worse sort.
• 

  Perry

  Designs,

  Moses was the mediator of the first covenant.

  In Heb 9:18-20, in order to demonstrate the necessity of Christ's death as the means by which he became the mediator of the new covenant, the author recalls the fact that the first covenant was inaugurated with blood. To make this point, he refers to Exodus 24:1-8, an account of the ratification of the covenant by Moses—the mediator of the first covenant—between God and the Israelites.

  In this rite, the people declared their willingness to do all the words of the Lord and the ordinances (Exod 24:3). Half of the blood of the calves Moses threw it against the altar, but he used the other half to sprinkle on the people, saying "This is the blood of the covenant." (Rather than "Behold..." in LXX Exod 24:8, the author uses "This is...," which is parallel to Mark 14:24 "This is my blood of the covenant.") The point is that the new covenant is also ratified with blood, so that Jesus’ blood is the blood of the (new) covenant.

  Implicit in the author's theologizing is the position that the blood of the animals are anti-typological of Jesus' blood, i.e., death, as the means by which the new covenant is inaugurated. (On this passage, see J. Dunnill, Covenant and Sacrifice in the Letter to the Hebrews , 126-34)

  I suppose there could be a "Judaism" without Moses the way some people fantasize about a christianity without Jesus.....but that is completely outside of the common-sense definitions.
• 

  designs

  Perry- like most things theological you are lacking in substance and background knowledge. You are basing your argument on Paul saying so and so means so and so. Paul we know was a fabricator and liar. It is why Jews looked at him as a heretic and why he was rejected even within the jewish community that initially believed Jesus of Nazareth might have been the Messiah.

  Jews do not believe in Vicarious Sacrifice for sins.

  Should I repeat that for you. I think by this time most readers here have gotten the sense of what Judaism teaches and believes- No Vicarious Sacrifice.

  This is the lesson of Abraham and Isaac, known as The Akeidah (the Binding). This is the lesson of Ezekiel 18;and Deut.24 in the Torah.

  Christians have been trying to rewrite Jewish beliefs for 2000 years, stop it, its insulting and it shows what complete idiots Christians are.

  Remember the famous scene in John Steinbeck's East of Eden when they argue over personal responsibility (timshel, Thou Mayest) in Genesis 4:7? Remember that? Personal responsibility is the hallmark of Judaism.

  Let's repeat that for the Church impaired- The Jewish Messiah does not die for the sins of others (the world) each person is responsiblbe for themselves alone as Genesis 4:7 shows and as the Akeidah shows and the Torah shows. When Moses wanted to die for his people who did wrong what did God say- No! Each person must change for themselves alone.

  When a person reads Paul's Book of Romans and his messiah dies vicariously for Original sin- That is as blantant a lie and misrepresentation of Judaism as is possible. Paul's Book of Hebrews is bullshit. Grace is bullshit.
• 

  Perry

  Jews do not believe in Vicarious Sacrifice for sins. Should I repeat that for you. I think by this time most readers here have gotten the sense of what Judaism teaches and believes- No Vicarious Sacrifice.

  No need for you to repeat. You're not reading your Hebrew bible. We have the same scriptures that ancient Israel had and can read it for ourselves.

  Under the old Law Covenant mediated by Moses, a
  provision was made whereby a person’s sins could
  be transferred onto a sinless animal, first by the
  priest and then by the sinner by laying their hands on
  its head:
  
  And Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of
  the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities
  of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions
  in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the
  goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit
  man into the wilderness: - Lev.:16:21
  
  And the Levites shall lay their hands upon the
  heads of the bullocks: and thou shalt offer the one
  for a sin offering, and the other for a burnt offering,
  unto the LORD, to make an atonement for the
  Levites. - Numbers 8:12
  
  Then, the animal was slaughtered in place of the
  sinner. The sentence of death was still carried out
  according to the LAW. However, this process of
  animal substitution had to be repeated because the
  sinless animal, while suffering the death sentence for
  the guilty person, could not thereafter impart
  PERFECT LIFE to the sinner, making future sin
  inevitable.

  The Messiah will be the Savior of the Whole World, Jews and Gentiles.

  

  Isaiah 11:10 "And in that day there shall be a Root of Jesse, who shall stand as a banner to the people; for the Gentiles shall seek Him, and His resting place shall be glorious."

  Isaiah 42:1 "Behold! My Servant whom I uphold, my Elect One in whom My soul delights! I have put My Spirit upon Him; he will bring forth justice to the Gentiles.

  Isaiah 49:6 Indeed He says, `It is too small a thing that You should be My Servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved ones of Israel; I will also give You as a light to the Gentiles, that You should be My salvation to the ends of the earth.'"

  Ezekiel 33: 12 - THEREFORE, THOU SON OF MAN , SAY UNTO THE CHILDREN OF THY PEOPLE , THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF THE RIGHTEOUS SHALL NOT DELIVER HIM IN THE DAY OF HIS TRANSGRESSION :

  "How then can we be saved? All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags" - Is. 64: 6

  God’s resting place would no longer be the Temple but within His own people who would also include the Gentiles:

  "But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people." Jer. 31:33

  We can't do it ourselves designs. Get off the hampster wheel, let go and let God ....