Dissoi logoi - Jehovah's Witnesses do have the Truth! My Story Part 3

by objectivetruth 30 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • objectivetruth
    objectivetruth

    leaving -

    We were Taught as Witnesses, "Reject All False Teachings!" , "There is only one True Religion" and so on. These Teachings breed Hate & Intollerance towards others Beliefs.

    To respond to this statement "being part of that which isn't true is problematic." I disagree to a Certain Extent.

    1. Jesus Attended the Jewish Synagogue for Most of His Life. At that time, they were Absolutely Teaching False Doctrine, as well as Man Made tradition that was Contrary to God's True Word.

    2. Paul supported False Religion, and he even Murdered righteous men in Support of that Religion. - Jesus chose him, because of his Heart Condtion.

    3. No one, teaches Truth, anywhere in the World. I believe that Jesus wants us to Remain in the Church that we are in at the time of Being Called .1 Cor 7:17 " Only let each person lead the life that the Lord has assigned to him, and to which God has called him. This is my rule in all the churches." (My opinion, what are your thoughts on this Scripture?)

  • objectivetruth
    objectivetruth

    jgnat - Similarly how many Lives have been saved by Witnesses not going to War? (Not intending to start a Conversation on War and Neutrality, rather just pointing out that there are Pros & Cons)

  • leaving_quietly
    leaving_quietly

    Had to go to meeting, thus the delay in my reply.

    1. Jesus Attended the Jewish Synagogue for Most of His Life. At that time, they were Absolutely Teaching False Doctrine, as well as Man Made tradition that was Contrary to God's True Word.

    True. Of course, he was sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. He was also an Israelite. And as for those false doctrines and traditions, what did he do? Just go along with it? For a time, yes. But after his baptism, he called them hypocrites for teaching commands of men as false doctrines for their traditions, for burdening the people. Try doing that in a Kingdom Hall.

    2. Paul supported False Religion, and he even Murdered righteous men in Support of that Religion. - Jesus chose him, because of his Heart Condtion.

    Also true. However, recall what Christ said to him at first: "Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?" (Acts 9:4) Yes, he saw the good in him, but he also acknowledged the bad. That was to change with Paul.

    Later, Paul said:

    "Do not become unevenly yoked with unbelievers. For what fellowship do righteousness and lawlessness have? Or what sharing does light have with darkness? 15 Further, what harmony is there between Christ and Be′li·al? Or what does a believer share in common with an unbeliever? 16 And what agreement does God’s temple have with idols? For we are a temple of a living God; just as God said: “I will reside among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people.” 17 “‘Therefore, get out from among them, and separate yourselves,’ says Jehovah, ‘and quit touching the unclean thing’”; “‘and I will take you in.’” 18 “‘And I will become a father to you, and you will become sons and daughters to me,’ says Jehovah, the Almighty." (2 Cor 6:14-18)

    Notice the order... get out, separate yourselves, quit touching the unclean thing... and I will take you in. I'm not saying the order is ultra crucial, but it's noteworthy, nonetheless, and I would say that if we know a religion/church to be false, this admonition has to count for something. Plus, we have the benefit of the visions of Revelation, including the angel declaring (speaking of Babylon the Great), "Get out of her, my people!". That must be taken into consideration.

    3. No one, teaches Truth, anywhere in the World. I believe that Jesus wants us to Remain in the Church that we are in at the time of Being Called .1 Cor 7:17 " Only let each person lead the life that the Lord has assigned to him, and to which God has called him. This is my rule in all the churches." (My opinion, what are your thoughts on this Scripture?)

    I'm not afraid to say that I believe in Christ. Before undertaking this journey learning TTATT, I had zero faith in Christ. I thought I did, but have realized that my faith was seriously misplaced in "the organization" instead of Christ. To that end, I agree with you. No one can truly teach truth unless they look to the one who IS truth, that is, Christ. John 14:6) There are some here who would mock me for that position, but it is my position, nonetheless.

    To address the verse you quoted, it's an interesting take, but since I like reading things in context, let's take a look at this more in context. Not sure which translation you used... perhaps ESV? Here's the passage, verses 17-23.

    Only let each person lead the life that the Lord has assigned to him, and to which God has called him. This is my rule in all the churches. 18 Was anyone at the time of his call already circumcised? Let him not seek to remove the marks of circumcision. Was anyone at the time of his call uncircumcised? Let him not seek circumcision. 19 For neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, but keeping the commandments of God. 20 Each one should remain in the condition in which he was called. 21 Were you a bondservant when called? Do not be concerned about it. (But if you can gain your freedom, avail yourself of the opportunity.) 22 For he who was called in the Lord as a bondservant is a freedman of the Lord. Likewise he who was free when called is a bondservant of Christ. 23 You were bought with a price; do not become bondservants of men. 24 So, brothers, in whatever condition each was called, there let him remain with God.

    The point Paul was trying to make was that a person need not make drastic changes if they are called because their calling was not dependent on such changes. It's a free gift. However, he did make it a point to say that if they were slaves, they should try to gain their freedom. He made that point elsewhere, too, that they should not be enslaved to men. Take that for what it's worth.

    Here's my thinking on the matter. If I could openly speak about the Bible with JWs without being judged/ostracized/hauled before a judicial committee and thrown out, if I could disagree with the GB on matters of importance, if I could openly declare my faith in Christ, then remaining a JW might be an option. But, I cannot do any of that. I cannot openly declare my faith in Christ without, at a minimum, raising eyebrows. I certainly could not openly declare my faith by my actions by partaking of the bread and the wine at the Memorial. That being the case, in my opinion, at some point in time, I will have to "come out".

  • Dis-Member
    Dis-Member

    I believe that Jesus wants us to Remain in the Church that we are in at the time of Being Called .1 Cor 7:17 " Only let each person lead the life that the Lord has assigned to him, and to which God has called him. This is my rule in all the churches." (My opinion, what are your thoughts on this Scripture?)

    I hope that is not true because I can not see myself going back into any organised form of religion especially not the 'Org' after the harm that did me.

    But that's just your belief so i guess I'm excused.

  • DATA-DOG
    DATA-DOG

    What has this thread accomplished, other than allowing a healthy debate? There are still no answers. Even the word "church" must be agreed upon before answering whether or not a person should leave the "church" of their birth. If "church" means the body of Christ, then you are chosen to be in that body and no physical building or location has any relevance.

    Of course, everything hinges upon whether or not the Bible is actually from a benevolent creator. At any rate, NOTHING taught by the WTBTS meets the criteria for truth. Therefore, they do not have THE TRUTH and are not the ONE TRUE RELIGION. It's that simple. Any other arguments are just exercises to get our own thoughts and feelings sorted out before we move on with our lives.

    DD

  • leaving_quietly
    leaving_quietly

    What has this thread accomplished, other than allowing a healthy debate?

    But I rather enjoyed this debate. ;)

    Kinda like a practice run for when the elders come-a-callin'! He he.

  • objectivetruth
    objectivetruth

    here is my current viewpoint..

    I have attended Jewish Synagogues, Independent Unitarian Fellowships,Messianic Fellowships. I have researched many more Religions.. My conclusion, is that there are untruths mixed in with Truth Everywhere.. When I researched the Old Testament, and the Torah I realized that there truly is nothing new under the Sun.. Men love to control one another, and they all teach False Doctrine.

    Some scriptures that I believe are important :

    Hebrews 10:25 " not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near." ESV

    Hebrews 3:13 " But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called “today,” that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin."

    Hebrews 10:24 " And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works,"

    Proverbs 18:1 " Whoever isolates himself seeks his own desire; he breaks out against all sound judgment."

    SO It is in our best interest to associate with Fellow God Fearing Individuals with Good Morals, BUT if EVERYONE teaches false Doctrine, how can we rectify this? We have to choose someone to fellowship don't we?

    It's my opinion that the Apostles continued to Attend the Jewish Synagogue after Jesus ascension,and because they were all "cast out" John 16:2 , because of their adherence to Christ as the Messiah they were forced to start Home Congregations, eventually becoming Christianity.

    Perhaps his Is the Path? Stay in the JW org, until one is cast out, and then start a Home / Small fellowship.

  • objectivetruth
    objectivetruth

    Leaving-quietly - " Notice the order... get out, separate yourselves, quit touching the unclean thing... and I will take you in. I'm not saying the order is ultra crucial, but it's noteworthy, nonetheless, and I would say that if we know a religion/church to be false, this admonition has to count for something. Plus, we have the benefit of the visions of Revelation, including the angel declaring (speaking of Babylon the Great), "Get out of her, my people!". That must be taken into consideration."

    - I go back and forward on this, but currently I of not feel that JWs are Babylon the Great.. I would say that Polytheistic religions would definetely constitute Babylon the Great, and Possibly Catholic type Religions may also be considered Bablylon the great, based on their Lax Stance On Imorallity, and Sin.

    My wife and I Have left the Organization and completely Seperated Ourselves, but were left completely Isolated and Lacking the Oppurtunity to share the Good News with anyone.. it is tough to find a compromise for sure...

  • objectivetruth
    objectivetruth

    Data-Dog - I believe that the Word "Church" generally refers to the Body of Christ, which is comprised of Righteous individuals all over the World. I believe that the Body members are integrated in varying Sects and Religions. I also beleieve gang God has designed it this way, so that the Members of the True Church can let their Lights shine, and hopefully bring others to Salvation.

    The parable of the Wheat and The a Weeds reinforces my view points on this topic, seeing that the wheat and the weeds all Grow Together until the time if the Harvest.. This does not mean they are all growing in ONE organization such as the JW religion, rather they are in many Religions throughout the Earth.

  • objectivetruth
    objectivetruth

    Dis-member - Have you found alternative methods of fellowship, outside of organized religion?

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