What Would It Take To Prove......

by metatron 33 Replies latest jw friends

  • metatron
    metatron

    A hypothetical question.

    At a minimum, what evidence would it take to prove that the Society is trying to quietly shed publishers?

    Now, I don't think we have evidence of this yet but that doesn't mean it could never happen. We must consider where the trends of magazine/literature cuts, Branch Office sales, coerced contributions, Bethel/DO layoffs, and emphasis on JW.Org lead us.

    OTOH, you might argue that there would never be a deliberate move to get rid of them, just moves that discreetly abandon them. A sort of 'devil take the hindmost' or 'cut and run' approach.

    Time to think about what might be....

    metatron

  • stuckinarut2
    stuckinarut2

    But they have often boasted in the increasing numbers as evidence of gods backing

    So how would they spin news of decreasing numbers?

    I reckon they love the numbers nowadays.....and they rely on the big day of A to kill off any of the weak witnesses that they dont really want in the panda patting paradise

  • metatron
    metatron

    What you say is fair but I'm seeing contradictory moves by the Organization.

    That's why I brought this up as hypothetical.

    metatron

  • OneEyedJoe
    OneEyedJoe

    stuckin-

    Who publishes the numbers? The stats don't come from some external auditing company, they come from inside...if they want to fudge the numbers who'd know? Witnesses are purposely kept leary of talking to other witnesses online (they could be apostates!) so they'd have to physically visit a number of different regions in order to confirm that a drop in numbers is more than just a local phenomenon. Even then, the org could print different numbers by region so that the increase is always happening in foreign lands.

    Even if they're honest with it, they could spin it as a positive, just like they do with the shedding of 75% of the IBSA following from 1914 through the 1920s. They say that jesus was refining the congregation. It'd be the same thing today: "How joyful we must be to see that Jesus is seperating out those that are disloyal to him. Satan is really stepping up his attacks, knowing that the time left is reduced!"

    There's certainly circumstantial evidence that they're intentionally trying to get rid of the critical thinkers. They changed the generation teaching in 2008, then again only 2 years later? Not to mention, the 2008 change was purely academic and made no real difference in when the end would be expected. You'd think the GB would be able to plan unneccesary doctrine changes more than 2 years out. Not to mention that they changed something that seemed somewhat reasonable (the 2008 version) to something thats absolutely rediculous (2 generations = 1 generation). What's the phrase that people often use when they know they're being lied to? "Don't tell me 2+2 doesn't equal 4." Well, now the GB is LITERALLY telling us that 1+1=1.

    Then you have the new donation arrangement, and the changes that took place to the deeds while all the unneccessary renos where going on that basically gives the GB the power to disolve a congregation and take their KH. Once the congregations start sending in less money than they owe on the latest reno or new construction, they'll disolve the congregation and sell off the hall. It's easier to do this without people noticing if people are already leaving, and there's a valid reason to consolodate congregations.

    As far as what it would take to conclusively prove that they're trying to reduce the number of adherents, you'd have to get multiple independant reports from high-ups at bethel, or some internal memo or GB agenda item or something that confirms it. All of which are unlikely, so only time will tell.

  • warehouse
    warehouse

    At minimum, I would say some kind of confidential letter/phone convo containing direction to "thin the flock" would need to surface. And this "direction" would need to contain the trademark surreptitious manipulation of scriptures that the society is known for.

    EDIT

    OneEyedJoe wrote:

    you'd have to get multiple independant reports from high-ups at bethel, or some internal memo or GB agenda item or something that confirms it.

    great minds think alike

  • Apognophos
    Apognophos

    I wouldn't expect a memo necessarily, just word of mouth conveying to each CO that he should encourage the elders to DF more for various minor offenses, or make reinstatement harder. If anything ended up in writing I would expect it to be something along the lines of a handwritten note in the margin of each elder's Shepherd book, detailing stricter rules for the flock.

    On another note, I was thinking the other day that statements about the need to follow any directions, even if they seem illogical, would do a good job of weeding out lukewarm JWs if they were repeated more often -- or if there was actual follow-up in terms of shocking new directions, such as implementing tithing (real tithing, the recent change to the KH fund doesn't count).

  • a watcher
    a watcher

    metatron, there's no such thing as coerced contributions. It's an oxymoron.

    JW's are not forced to give money. It's completely voluntary.

  • sir82
    sir82

    If asked that question years ago, I would have said "making things even more difficult - more meetings, longer conventions, more aggressive witnessing tactics, etc."

    But the trend over the past 10 years has been just the opposite - fewer & shorter meetings, fewer assembly days, 3 or 4 "special" (mind-numbingly simple) tract campaigns per year, reduced auxiliary pioneer hours....

    I can certainly understand the appeal of having 4 million fiercely loyal and willing-to-contribute members instead of the current 8 million of whom 50% or more are "floating" along....

    But it seems that their actions toward the rank & file are an attempt to make things at least superficially easier, as though they are desperately trying to hang on to as many as possible.

  • KateWild
    KateWild

    A watcher you have missed the point and gone off topic.

    Good observation Metatron, they very well might be reducing numbers and DFing more easily and making the RI process more difficult. IMO personally I think it's because there are too many relishing in the power of being an elder, and enjoying causing misery to others.

    Kate xx

  • darth frosty
    darth frosty

    It takes a hunch!

    I said on here 4 or 5 yrs ago that their ultimate end game is for the R&F pubs to catch a clue and go away. Someone posted a few days ago about it becoming an 'E-Religion' thanks to their launch of JW.org that pretty nicely sums it up and fixes their problem of dealing with the pubs/drones.

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