Need help understanding scriptues in Mathew. just trying to show my wife the BORG is soooo wrong

by goingthruthemotions 56 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • goingthruthemotions
    goingthruthemotions

    As you know I am still in but have no strong conviction for this cult..but i still go because my wife is still asleep to the false teachings. for a few months now...when we have family study it is stricly from the bible. Which is great, while we study we are taking the bible as it is, i think it is opening her eyes and how important Jesus is. BTW....we are only studying the new testament. so the questions i have are below: 1st question: in Matt 17:1-7 the apostles had a vision where jesus with moses and elijah. when we read this my wife said, i thought they were not anointed? I said well here it shows there spirit is in heaven and with jesus. so obiously they are in heaven as far as being anointed i am not sure. because according to the JW teaching the anointing started at pentecost 33ce. therefore Moses and elijah should not be present according to the JW's. Of course there teaching is wrong and Moses and Elijah are in heaven. would i be correct in my observation

    Matthew 17
    New American Standard Bible The Transfiguration 1 Six days later Jesus took with Him Peter and James and John his brother, and led them up on a high mountain by themselves. 2 And He was transfigured before them; and His face shone like the sun, and His garments became as white as light. 3 And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him. 4 Peter said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here; if You wish, I will make three tabernacles here, one for You, and one for Moses, and one for Elijah.” 5 While he was still speaking, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and behold, a voice out of the cloud said, “This is My beloved Son, with whom I am well-pleased; listen to Him!” 6 When the disciples heard this, they fell face down to the ground and were terrified. 7 And Jesus came to them and touched them and said, “Get up, and do not be afraid.” 8 And lifting up their eyes, they saw no one except Jesus Himself alone.

    2nd question: so during our family study we came accross Matt 18:10 where it talks about being like a child when serving God. and then there it was talking about our angels. So my children asked. Do we have guardian angles? I looked at my wife and she started to say no....and i stopped her and said. well the bible says we do. how could we challenge what the bible says. She was so suprised because she was always taught we did have guardian angels. he next statement was ....well don't worship them. and I said well of course not. but you can't take the fact away that we have guardian angels. My question is to is...was i way off base? i am just analyzing the bible as it is and not trying to read more into it than is there.

    Matthew 18
    New American Standard Bible 7 “Woe to the world because of its stumbling blocks! For it is inevitable that stumbling blocks come; but woe to that man through whom the stumbling block comes! 8 “If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than to have two hands or two feet and be cast into the eternal fire. 9 “If your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out and throw it from you. It is better for you to enter life with one eye, than to have two eyes and be cast into the fiery hell. 10 “See that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I say to you that their angels in heaven continually see the face of My Father who is in heaven. 11 [“For the Son of Man has come to save that which was lost. ]

    3rd question: so we were in Matt 19:28 and here we see that the disciples are told what there reward was for being faithful to Jesus. the 12 disciples are going to sit on 12 thrones and judge the 12 tribes. i pointed this out to my wife and said this corrilates to Rev 7:1-8 where it talkes about the 144,000 and more specific where the 144000 come from. I am under the impression that 12 disciples came from those tribes and the remaining are from those tribes. So in reality if the 144000 that are susposed to exist today living or dead should come from those tribes. So the GB members who are there better be from one of the 12 tribes....those lying bastards. am I way off base on my analysis? thanks for your time GTTM

    Matthew 19
    New American Standard Bible The Disciples’ Reward 27 Then Peter said to Him, “Behold, we have left everything and followed You; what then will there be for us?” 28 And Jesus said to them, “Truly I say to you, that you who have followed Me, in the regeneration when the Son of Man will sit on His glorious throne, you also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29 “And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or farms for My name’s sake, will receive many times as much, and will inherit eternal life. 30 “But many who are first will be last; andthe last, first.
    Revelation 7
    New American Standard Bible An Interlude 1 After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth, so that no wind would blow on the earth or on the sea or on any tree. 2 And I saw another angel ascending from the rising of the sun, having the seal of the living God; and he cried out with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea, 3 saying, “Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees until we have sealed the bond-servants of our God on their foreheads.” The 144,000 4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed, one hundred and forty-four thousand sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:
    5 from the tribe of Judah, twelve thousand were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand, from the tribe of Gad twelve thousand, 6 from the tribe of Asher twelve thousand, from the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand, from the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand, 7 from the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand, from the tribe of Levi twelve thousand, from the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand, 8 from the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand, from the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand, from the tribe of Benjamin, twelve thousand were sealed.
  • designs
    designs

    Its the NT, its all fables and maybe some Peyote thrown in for good measure. They can make up anything they want....

  • DocHouse
    DocHouse

    1-I guess you missed where Jesus said to tell the VISION to no one. As well as the penalty for Adam & Eve's rebellion being DEATH, rathewr than living in a different form, as well as how Adam came to BE a soul- that no imaginary 'immortal soul' was put in him...And all the details from Genesis to Revelation showing that the dead -GASP!- are REALLY DEAD (not alive), and that a Day of Resurrection and Judgment is ahead....

    2- Little detail is given as to what God has his messengers (angels) do.

    3- Who rules is a lot of guesswork. The 12 Tribes in the Symbolic Vision we know as Revelation had 2 tribes that were NEVER REALLY TRIBES in the ORIGINAL nation. Jesus said it was not his plkace to choose who would rule with him- but his father's. We just have to wait and see.

    We do know there will be some that will rule in heaven, that the rest will inherit the earth- and that MOST will remain dead- forever!

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    The important part is that you all are thinking and questioning. It is obvious from only a few chapters that the WTS teachings, many of them, are not at all rock solid biblical.

  • Daniel1555
    Daniel1555

    You are right. WT teaches that all the faithful before 33 have an earthly resurrection.

    Heb 11:16 says clearly that those faithful of old are reaching out for a place in heaven.

    Good luck to you and your wife.

  • ABibleStudent
    ABibleStudent

    Hi goingthruthemotions, Mathew is loaded with verses that contradict that God needs an organization to guide "True" Christians and shunning. Jesus Christ's messages were unconditional love (most important), mercy, and truth.

    If you have read about Steve Hassan's BITE model, than ask your wife simple questions about how Jesus Christ felt about the Pharisees and Sadducees and how they victimized the Jews. I would recommend asking a lot of questions about:

    • Mt 7 How does the WTBTS's doctrines compare to Mt 7? Would JWs like to be shunned, deceived to, or not associated with because they are JWs (Mt 7:12)? How do JWs follow the example and teachings of Jesus Christ?
    • Mt 12:22-37 If blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven, how does one blasphemy the Spirit?
    • Mt 15:1-28 Why blindly follow religious leaders, give to the religion instead of help parents, and not associate because of being non-Jewish?
    • MT16:13-20 Why did Jesus order his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah? Why does the WTBTS tell JWs to tell everyone that they are "True Christians"? Aren't deeds better than talk?
    • Mt 18:10-14 Why does the WTBTS shun JWs who do not believe that the WTBTS has the "Truth"? How would you reconcile the differences in teachings of verses Mt 18:10-14 and Mt 18:15-20? What type of sin is Mt 18:15-20 referring to (Mt 12:31)?
    • Mt 22:34-40 How can a JW believe with "ALL" his heart, mind, and soul in God and still be able to blindly follow religious leaders? How does the WTBTS follow the two greatist commandments?
    • Mt 23 Without describing about the BITE model nor comparing Mt 23 to the WTBTS's actions and doctrines, how did Jesus Christ view the Pharisees and Sadducees?

    Best wishes helping your wife to critically think for herself and to do her own independent research.

    Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

    Robert

  • cofty
    cofty

    Jesus Christ's messages were unconditional love (most important), mercy, and truth. - Abiblestudent

    “If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple." - Luke 14:26

    Another disciple said to him, “Lord, first let me go and bury my father.” But Jesus told him, “Follow me, and let the dead bury their own dead.” - Matt 8:22

    It's like some believers have never read the damn book.

  • designs
  • ABibleStudent
    ABibleStudent

    Cofty -

    “If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple." - Luke 14:26

    Another disciple said to him, “Lord, first let me go and bury my father.” But Jesus told him, “Follow me, and let the dead bury their own dead.” - Matt 8:22

    It's like some believers have never read the damn book.

    Hi Cofty, My comments were written to goingthruthemotions to help him with helping his wife critically think for herself and do her own independent research. My comments were not promoting to believe in the examples and teachings of Jesus Christ (nor whether he existed).

    I have read the bible and thought alot about Luke 14:25-34. I just have a different perspective and conclusions than you have. I agree that the Bible appears to have inconsistant statements which is why, I prefer to intrepret Bible verses using Mt 22:37-40. Although I do not like the wording of Luke 14:25-34, is it possible that about 2000 years ago that (some) Jews were members of a dangerous cult according to Steve Hassan's BITE model and would have striclty shunned relatives or close friends for not blindly following Jewish leaders?

    When you left the WTBTS, didn't your JW family and friends choose to damage their relationships with you by shunning you? Could your choice have been viewed by those JWs as hating them and loving Satan?

    Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

    Robert

  • cofty
    cofty

    Robert I am all for helping JWs reason on their beleifs and finding common ground to do so.

    However I am opposed to replacing one set of delusions with another. Jesus was a dangerous, family-destroying, false prophet and cult leader.

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit