The "Preaching" Work As A Dead Parrot

by metatron 41 Replies latest jw friends

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  Magnum

  BucketShopBill: The Governing Body is not stupid, they know that people are afraid of admitting "I was wrong preaching for Fifty Years, or Ten years, ect.." The benefit of coming forward even if you realize it's a total lie is harsh because your friends and family might not be like you, these concepts are too painful and thought-consuming so they remain in a state of anxious-chosen Ignorance.

  I wonder how many JWs remain even though they don't believe it. All the JWs I know give evidence of being 100% believers except for two smart elders, and I think that once they are totally convinced JWs are wrong, they'll both admit it and leave.
• 

  Apognophos

  They can just repeat "the truth" over and over - even cynically - and change whatever they wish. They don't have to believe it, Witnesses are eager to be lied to.

  Well, I think the leaders are really a combination of sincerity and insincerity. I don't pretend to know for sure, but I think they basically belleve it's God's earthly organization. However... this means that changes to the business model that preserve the org. are entirely warranted. In their mind, anything done to preserve the org., even if it requires basically lying to the rank and file, is promoting true worship.

  Here's a concrete example: when the U.N. NGO scandal happened, their claim about the library card was the best way to avoid stumbling the flock; because if they said, "We're an NGO because working with the U.N. helps the work proceed unhindered in foreign lands where there's opposition", the r&f would think, "Oh my God, they're working with the U.N.... the wild beast?!"

  But the mindset of the high-ups is, "This is helpful to the org. We don't have to trust the U.N., we're just taking advantage of them to spread our message more easily. It's not like we're not joining Babylon the Great, the harlot of false religion who we're told to 'get out of' lest we 'share in her sins'; however, the average Witness will not appreciate this distinction. Many of them do not have the discernment to understand what we're doing. Therefore we'll give them a reason less likely to cause stumbling."

  It's the same mentality that's behind the keeping of books in the Bethel library that would normally be considered demonic (as we've heard about from many ex-Bethelites here). It's basically a somewhat arrogant attitude: "We can handle this material, even if the r&f can't."

  So, yes, it's possible that the Society will disband the door-to-door work if it seems like it will greatly benefit the org. But I think there's a lot of substance to the objections here that (1) the d2d work is a famous trait of JWs that the Society would be reluctant to give up, and (2) it keeps the r&f busy and out of trouble (much like mandating that adolescents spend most of the day in school even though most of what they learn is totally unneeded in their future adult life; it keeps them off the streets). But the Society will do what's best for its survival, just as it's doing by moving out of NYC.
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  BucketShopBill

  Good points Metatron, is it possible the Governing Body are either agnostics or atheists and pretend to believe they got the truth? It’s becoming a common theme among the threads lately and I wonder if it’s possible. Like any human being, we seek to provide for our family and at their age, there’s not a whole lot of opportunities existing for old men who teaching false doctrine, so they remain for financial reasons. No doubt they all have read “Crisis of Conscience” and “In Search of Christian Freedom”, so are they going to end up broke like Ray Franz Jr because they love truth or keep their positions as JW deities? We both know the answer, remain they must or money and prestige they lose.

  I am hearing more complaints by Fundamental Christians leaders getting bombarded with financial questions, kids walking up after the Apologist gives his reasons “Why we believe in God”, some young college kid from Azusa Pacific University bluntly asks the Speaker “how do you make and how do I maximize my income, do I go for a mega-church or smaller focused on people in the Hamptons? This speaker bummed that’s all that kid wanted to know.

  According to Lron’s son, his father was shocked by the response of Dyanetics and soon donations started arriving in the mail and people wanting to attend a clinic he had yet to devise. That’s when his father knew Scientology was going to be a smashing hit and his words as a “pulp fiction” writer came true, “If you want to make lots of money, start a religion!” On JWN, someone said recently the Governing Body are atheists and know they are teaching a lie but remain for the cash!

  Ray Franz Jr. had to go, he was dangerous and they wanted him out as they did with brother Ed Dunlp. If they allowed Ray and Ed to remain in the Organization their fears might come true, two high powered Christian Scholars were two too many, leaving them alone was not a option. You know how far the Elders go to hunt down and seek out people whose wool is removed from their eyes, they are credible threats and must be removed for the Cults sake. They watch over the older-wise Witnesses who faded carefully, if there’s any hint of teaching something other than the official party line, there is no such thing as “wrongful excommunication” best to error because they think like the Jewish High Priest who said “Don’t you know anything, it’s better for one man to die than for the entire Jewish people!” (John 18:14). I think they are afraid of how powerful the Internet has become, your point of a large awareness is totally possible if the Witnesses allow themselves to see. Remember “There are none so blinder than those who refuse to see!” Proverb found in Watchtower, source Africa.

  I agree, TED talks are informative and facial pattern recognition videos are useful, we need a super professional Poker player to read their tells. Have you ever watched the professionals on the World Championship matches on ESPN? They cover their eyes, put on ear muffs, fake smiles, create nervous ticks so nobody can pick up their hand yet it’s uncanny how some of the super-expert Poker players will say “you got two Sixes don’t you?” I like your ideas; we need to review their facial patterns by using Ted Talks and Poker Tells the Pros use. I enjoyed your ideas, you are right in everything you said about the Tipping Point ideas, and we are not dealing with rational people. Remember in the book how Birkenstocks got a second-wind because they were perceived as hippy and everyone who wanted to look cool in Greenwich soon bought a pair and it spread all over the Country. They were so popular when I was a teenager, I thought they were long dead and soon like a virus, they were back and gone. I wish we could know if the GB is a group of unbelievers. They don’t have the love of Christ that’s a fact we can extract from their teaching of hatred towards people who disagree with their Cult. The garbage they write in the Watchtower and ideas the Traveling Speakers bring are far from original Bible based Christian teaching, their man made. Thanks’ for a great thread Met, enjoyed it!

  http://www.readingpokertells.com/
• 

  berrygerry

  http://aso.gov.au/titles/ads/toora-vale-ice-welcome/clip1/
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  metatron

  Let me add this: dictators don't have retirement plans.............. but the Governing Body?

  It is well if guys like Hitler and Stalin enjoy deluding people because they have no choice in the matter. Once you 'ride on the tiger's back', there is no way to get off without being eaten alive. Sadaam Hussein knew this and said as much.

  However, the Governing Body don't have the same dire necessity -wherein they must deceive and oppress and dominate because they are protected under law. The First Amendment is a pretty solid barrier.

  So, they can change things as they wish....... and so what? I continue to question this "they must maintain control over publishers!" idea - because I think they can get tired of it and compromise the whole thing since they control What's Really Important ($$$$$$)

  And all the more so, if they lose personal faith in it. On that point, I will admit that their level of self deception can be quite astonishing. I recall that GB member Greenlees was utterly faithful to the Organization ideal even after he was involved with men/boys.

  metatron
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  NewYork44M

  So are you predicting something Metatron? If there is a change it wont be driven by the desire to be kind to the r&f, it will be because something else is invented to keep everyone busy and not thinking.

  Or, it will be driven by dollars. For example, perhaps a lawsuit determines that these volunteers are actually employees and the society is liability via workers compensation insurance. If something like that were to happen I can assure you there will be a change.
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  metatron

  I have no illusions that they have any great interest in being "kind". If they actually have lost faith in their own bullsh*t, perhaps they may have some hint of compassion as to feeling guilty about taking care of 8 million dupes.

  I'm not making a prediction because we need more evidence. I am a trend follower by nature (as by habit with stock market speculation).

  I do think we need to be skeptical about the automatic assumption that, just because they have always been obsessed with control, they always will be. The practical necessity of this cultish dominance has been compromised.

  You may have a point about a future legal challenge in regard to the "preaching" work based on volunteers representing the WTS. However, if you or others believe that they would abandon the D2D work because of such a challenge, then the persistence of this work does not have the absolute certainty that many would attribute to it, IMO.

  metatron
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  SAHS

  The door-to-door preaching work is really a tool to reinforce the idea for individual JWs that they are “on the right track” for salvation because, after all, they can say to themselves, “Well, it’s far more than just me doing it – there’s almost eight million of us all doing it together worldwide!”
• 

  BucketShopBill

  Metatron, you might enjoy reading one of the gurus of "Trends" Gerald Celante, I think you already read his material because your insights are deep, your smart brother!

  "I'm not making a prediction because we need more evidence. I am a trend follower by nature (as by habit with stock market speculation).

  I do think we need to be skeptical about the automatic assumption that, just because they have always been obsessed with control, they always will be. The practical necessity of this cultish dominance has been compromised.

  Metatron

  Can you tell us your insights how you think their group has been compromised and what are the factors changing "group dynamics" in their ranks? I posted their experiment on Nancy Yuing, remember her story via the JW Grape Vine versus Ray Franz Jr's account of how she was given chances to get out of jail and she refused because she thought she was being loyal to Jehovah. The British Branch Office in Hong Kong could have told Nancy Yuing to "Stop, Get out of the Country with your husband and children!" instead the Branch was intrigued by Nancy going to jail, she went back and forth, back and forth until the Communist Chinese said "Enough is enough!", placed her in jail for twenty years? None of the Branch Family was preaching, no Special Pioneers or Western Cult leaders stepped in to Communist China's Field Service, they crave control like Psychopaths do without regard for their followers lives!

  Metatron, if the Preaching is producing little tangible proceeds, why don't they place their focus on something beyond the door-to-door work? If Stats are true and 70-80% of Witnesses are, were found in the Door-to-door Work, why not put all their energies there? It's because it keeps them "busy" and spinning their wheels, do you remember the good feelings when you found people to talk to? Those feelings we felt when we preached were trippy because now I am getting them when I help with our Community. I never wanted that strange feeling because I feel it's our job to help anyon who needs help, it's hard because I have lots of JW Biasm I am trying to eradicate out of my head and it's so hard. How do we remain stable in life without fixating on situations and get away from all the negative thinking decades of constant bombardment inflicted on us?

  Sahs, why do they continue to focus on works that do not produce? I think you slammed the nail in, really good ideas you have!

  "he door-to-door preaching work is really a tool to reinforce the idea for individual JWs that they are “on the right track” for salvation because, after all, they can say to themselves, “Well, it’s far more than just me doing it – there’s almost eight million of us all doing it together worldwide!” Sahs
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  rjharris

  It was never intended that humans declare a Good News of the Kingdom mesaage.

  As a former 30-year JW (disassociated), I know that no one can tell you what exactly the "Good News" message is or where it is stated in Scripture. It is not there.

  The "Good News of the Kingdom" message has not been given yet. And, when it is given, an angel - yes, one angel - will declare it to the world, not humans. Revelation 14:6 says:

  "And I saw another angel flying in midheaven, and he had everlasting good news to declare as glad tidings to those who dwell on the earth, and to every nation and tribe and tongue and people."

  So what are JWs preaching and declaring? A false home-grown message. Placing publications and making "Bible studies" is hardly preaching a Good News message. At best, it is only seeking converts and membership to the Watch Tower organization.

  Jesus never instructed us to make Bible studies, or JW, or Mormons, or Seventh Day Adventist, or Catholics, etc. He told his disciples to make disciples to him. (Matthew 28:19-20)

  Only an angel will be able to reach ALL in the world in those future days with the perfect message of the Good News of the Kingdom. The WT organization today has hardly put a dent in reaching ALL of the world with their campaign. Yet, it teaches we are in the last days!

  My advice is engage in prayer to the Father through Christ and ask God for his wisdom, his knowledge and his undertanding. Do not trust or rely on the things humans say. Do not trust or rely upon our own. Do not trust or rely on a book that came on the scene conveniently after Christs ascension.

  Trust God through Christ. This will involve constant and intense prayer to the Father as individuals. This private prayer must be constant and intense in order to break through the many layers and obstacles in place today that block access to the Father in heaven.

  Remove yourself from ANY an ALL religious organizations. They stand in front of you blocking access to the truth (Christ) through whom you get to the Father.

  Until takes this act of faith in approaching the Father, they will remain under the control and influence of the entities that prevent them from knowing the truth.

  I know personally once you remove those obstacles and engage in constant and intense prayer to the Father through the Master, be prepared to enter a world of enlightenment you never thought existed.

  You will come to know what Jesus meant when he said at John 8:31-32:

  "If YOU remain in my word, YOU are really my disciples, and YOU will know the truth, and the truth will set YOU free."

  Stepping out of the boat onto a deep watery surface as Peter did is a difficult thing to do. But it can be done if you have faith in the one who is standing on the water with his hands outstetched to you.

  But you have to take the first step and you have to go "OUT TO HIM." Not INTO a religious organization.

  R. Jerome Harris
  e-Prophetic.com