by zeb 16 Replies latest jw friends
so you guys are all happy to ignore the gloating messages of we shot down a plane?
dont fly over our airspace etc????
Sadly most war zones are flown over now, this was just waiting to happen, that, combined with Malaysian airlines poor management, made this an accident waiting to happen.
mikado: good point it is the issue of sovereingty of the the republic of donetzk*. or the wt god. he will kill too, if slighted.
* trouble is they are not accredited with IATA. and some other border adjustements in the region have not yet been recognized by most world bodies either.
Prologos - I think you've got me on the weight to drag ratio. Of course weight is the downwards force and drag the upward. The point I was atempting to make, however poorly and I should know better, was that the drag is in relation to the square of the surface area, and the large parts of wing and cabin even though they weight more than a human body will fall at a lower terminal velocity due there surface area. I was also considering that wing sections will also produce lift as will most flat objects, which is an additional upward force with the drag. The additional distance the larger parts travelled compared to the bodies was only 2658 metres off the original track, which equates to an additional northern wind componate of approx 27.5 knots.
The stall speed of the 777 at FL 33 would be around 530 Knots dependant on temperature and pressure on the day. Airliners all fly within a very narrow evelope at these levels as the speed of sound and stall speeds are relatively close to each other.
Anyway thanks for pointing out that error, and I hope my points is clearer now.
BB
Mikado,
Although Ukraine jumped in on those messages and even John Kerry took those social network and tapped phones as verified intelligence most news organizations realized that they were not verifiable and wouldn't be accepted as evidence.
Most of the accounts now use words such as alleged instead of confirmed. Fog of War.
The point remains that these events are accidental and shouldn't be used as a way of defining and punishing enemies.
The USA never apologized for the Iranian airline that they accidentally shot down July 1988. 290 men women and children were killed.
The USA and Europe punish Russia for the accidental deaths in the midst of a war zone but ignore the reckless bombardment of civilians in heavily populated areas of East Ukraine resulting in close to 900 deaths so far.
Obama sends the USA airforce to rescue innocents in Iraq while he turns his head when his Ukranian buddies have surrounded cities with populations in hundreds of thousands depriving them of food, water, and electricity to even run their hospitals.
Then the head of NATO warns that if Russia tries to end the fighting by force it will be considered an invasion.
At this point the people in East Ukraine will never trust or forgive the Ukranian army for destroying their homes, schools , clinics etc. Especially when Ukraine is so broke it will be a long time before it has any money to rebuild that area.
Why doesn't the US call off the Ukrainian goons and move the whole thing to the bargaining table where it will no doubt end up.
Obama is just trying to act as tough as John McCain in the face of midterm elections.
What do you mean, if Russia tries to end the fighting by force? they are the ones supporting the insurgents.
I dont particularly trust the Ukrainians in this, but I trust the Russians even less.
Mikado,
First of all the Russians were dealing with a legitimately elected president.
The Russians clearly don't want to annex Ukraine with all of its problems.
Putin wants to build a trading group-eurasian union just like the European Union. Ukraine is one of their organic/natural trading partners.
BushI promised to not move Nato into any of the countries in the former Warsaw pact.
That promise was broken by Clinton and BushII
Russia offered a great deal - 15 billion dollars to their government welfare fund. Plus cheap cheap fuel. If rejected Russia would no longer buy Ukranian exports.
Europe hard balled Ukraine by a final offer of 1 Billion dollars to offset some tariff problems.
Clearly Ukraine would have been better off taking the Russian offer
If I had my choice I would rather live in the European Union than a Eurasian Union - mainly because I am more liberal minded. Russia is too much like American conservatives.
Western Ukraine has a strong Nazi past (Right Sector) and they hate Russians.
Ukraine realistically has had a lot of long standing border issues.
The United States spent a lot of money encouraging the rebellion in Kiev. The State department was deep into the regime change project there.
When Easter Ukraine saw that the coup detat government was going to ban the Russian language in all of Ukraine they took that as a firm signal that trouble was ahead of them.
When people in Eastern Ukraine voted to form their own governement that is when the divorce should have been hammered out at the bargaining table. Why was it OK for the Czechs and Slovaks to seperate.
Instead the new Ukraine president pushed for a military settlement.
Russia is helping the ethnic Russians. What's wrong with that?
Putin will not lose in Ukraine.
When the separatists surrender then the real fate of Ukraine will be determined.
Europe will have to help pay for the Urban destruction in the East. Ukraine will have to pay the market price for fuel so they won't even have money to buy European goods.
Ukraine will become the property of investors from the west. Ukrainians will become the new and convenient cheap labor market.
It is such a shame that ordinary citizens have to have their lives blown up by the Ukranian army.
If the USA told Poroshenko to cease their attack immediately he would. If they are lucky they will be able to dump eastern ukraine and let the russians repair the damage. Game over.
The Russians don't have to worry about Nato expanding to Ukraine, Moldova or Georgia. They all have disputes witht their neighbors that are too risky for Nato.
