My Elderette returns for a final Bible Study session, after I avoided her for 2 months (very long post)

by Faithful Witness 42 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  leaving_quietly

  I have found it impossible to get a JW to express their own opinions or beliefs.

  JWs are trained NOT to express their own opinions or beliefs. They will have a scripture for everything, regardless of whether that scripture is used in the proper context or not.

  "I just know we have the TRUTH." and "I believe what the Bible says."

  Unless they are in union with Christ, they do not have the TRUTH.

  Take them to these verses:

  Christ said this to Pilate: "Everyone who is on the side of the truth listens to my voice." (John 18:37)
  
  Christ also said this: "Most truly I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in yourselves." (John 6:53).

  The question to ask: If Christ said that everyone on ths side of the truth listens to his voice, and said that they should eat his flesh and drink his blood (figuratively by the bread and the wine), and unless one does, they have no life in themselves, why is it that JWs largely refuse to do this at their annual memorial? And before answering that, keeping in mind that you said, "I believe what the Bible says," the Bible says at John 6:54: "Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has everlasting life, and I will resurrect him on the last day." JWs limit this to 144,000, but the Bible does not say that anywhere. The Bible says, "Whoever".
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  Crazyguy

  Jesus also said you must Not judge others or exalt yourselves, JW's do both. He also said at john 3 that one must be born again in order to see the kingdom, JW's say only the 144k are born again. Then you may mention that in Matt 26 he says that his blood means the covenant and Paul at hebrews chapter 9 or 7 says without this covenant there is no forgiveness for sins, so ask her how she thinks her sins are or will be forgiven??? This all goes along with what Leaving posted and show that Jesus alone in the way the truth the light and we do not need a religion or man or an Organization to be saved or be granted salvation.
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  carla

  I used to have almost the exact same conversation with my jw! finally I quit hitting my head against the wall of jwism and feel much better. They are not interested in the Gospel of Christ or Christ in general. They simply use "Jesus" as a magic mantra at the end of a prayer as far as I can tell.
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  Faithful Witness

  carla: EXACTLY!! Jesus is merely a TOOL to get to God. He is the door you have to go through, and they do it grudgingly.

  "Yes, Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life. No one gets to Jehovah, except if they GO THROUGH him. Remember now: WHO gave him his power???"
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  Phizzy

  Deceived wrote : " They know I am a disassociated JW and they told her she had to shun me because I was an apostate Satan was using me to put doubts in her mind. They told her they knew this because of the questions she was asking, only an apostate asks those kind of questions they said."

  Boy oh boy, they are not afraid to be seen as a destructive Cult are they ?

  Your whole story, Deceived, exposes their use of the B.I.T.E method. Most experienced, older JW's are cunning enough to hide a lot of this stuff until later, perhaps it is a good thing they showed their hand to your daughter as soon as they did.

  ".....only an apostate asks those kind of questions they said." That bit was funny, translate it to mean "We only want suckers who don't ask awkward questions."

  It is also the typical JW method of attack and question the source, never actually answer the questions.

  Thanks for the Thread FW, it really is illuminating for those not familiar with JW teaching and methods, as well as for JW's turning the spot-light on their own religion for the first time.
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  menrov

  FW, the only reason why I feel "sad" the study is over is because I know have to miss your excellent wrting skills. I really enjoyed the way you presented your experience, your choice of words, never too offensive, always respectful but still to the point, with a flavour of humour.

  Thanks
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  TheListener

  Not too long. I loved it. Thanks for taking your time to post so much detail.
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  Terry

  An encounter such as this is something a JW goes away and tells about. The reassurances come.

  But, in those still, quiet moments at night . . . their mind goes over and over and over it all.

  At first, they are trying to imagine what they might have said or done differently.

  Yet at a deeper level, something has crept in. A shadow of doubt.

  It eats away at the roots of absolute belief.

  The still, small voice nags and worries . . .
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  Faithful Witness

  I keep hoping that she will return for one more, last-ditch effort. I knew that inviting Diana to participate would probably scare her away for good.

  Although I should have been, I was NOT trying to "destroy the Watchtower" or "bring her to the LORD." I was rather enjoying our critical discussions, and learning a lot about JW behavior by watching her. It was just taking too much away from my family, and I could see myself tiptoeing around the gravity of the situation too many times. I would either spend too much time thinking and preparing for her visit, or I would be unprepared and more vulnerable to her manipulation.

  She was getting to me. I knew it. She knew it. ... Not converting me, but still starting to control my behavior, through her "training" techniques.

  Whether I was getting to her, I will probably never know.

  I guess I will have to wait until the next major campaign, to see if we still get our usual "hit and run" visitors. The last magazine left in my doorjam, was about 6 weeks ago. We live in the territory of a different KH, and I always answer and act interested when they call. They never are able to answer my sincere questions.
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  Heaven

  FW said: They never are able to answer my sincere questions.

  I am 51 years old. This has always been my experience.

  At some point you just stop asking because you realize that time is a precious commodity that is in shorter and shorter supply as you age and you would really rather spend your time on more productive or joyful things.