Atheists and JWs are on the same footing! (page 5)

jgnat

The confusion for believers, in thinking that Athiests are somehow "opposing God", is a question like, "If an all-loving God exists, why do I see XXX in the world?" The question comes from a desire for evidence, not a primal protest to an unloving God.

exWTslave

To all those who want proof for the existence of God:

I AM THE PROOF. Because I turned to God when every possible solution--including he GREAT law of love--failed! [In spite my busy schedule, I did even cooking and other house-keeping work to keep her as a Regular Pioneer]. When everything failed, then it was the time I had to turn to something superior not belonging to this world. I threw myself on God’s feet—He solved it just like that. My wife was a liability to me for the last 18 years, but now she is the most cherished asset for me, because she became an instrument for ME—note, for ME—to be really convinced that God exists. (http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/282507/1/God-listens-and-RESPONDS-to-your-prayer-if-you-know-how-to-log-on-to-Him-Here-is-the-proof#.U-sMuuOSwqM)

One day you may also receive such a proof—only the way in which it happens may differ!

If someone has got the proof, it should be a matter of relief. It need not give rise to the questions such as why others do not get proof, why others suffer ..... If someone is determined to get proof, he will get it some how, and some time!

KateWild

If you're not sure why people ask questions, there are classes on basic conversation methods you can take. If you can't explain what it means, you clearly don't understand it and shouldn't have brought it up.-Viv

There you go with your intellectual intimidation technique again. Thank you for clarifying why you ask questions. I am sure now it's to intimidate people. I asked you why you were asking a particular question, to be polite to you, but I can read between the lines. I am going to ignore futher posts from you on this thread as they are off topic and designed to be deliberately abusive. There is no conversaton with you Viv. Absolutely none.

Kate xx

Ruby456

One thing I have learned from you Viv is that you believe in/allow for the existence of mysteries? Now what could be more religious than that?

cofty

Ruby - Religious people love mysteries becasue they provide cover for fantasy beings.

Rational people love mysteries in the same way that mountaineers love mountains.

exjwslave - Please reflect on the differences between proof and anecdote.

cofty

I did not say God was evil or good, IMO God is indifferent, he cares about no one or nothing

In the face of human suffering that would make him evil.

defender of truth

(exWTslave, any reply would be appreciated)

"If evil and suffering exist, it proves man has chosen evil and its resultant suffering!"

ExWTSlave... Animals did not choose to suffer.
Why did God design animals to suffer and kill each other in painful ways, long before 'mankinds fall' ??

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/222352/1/Theists-why-does-God-allow-suffering#.U-jYul2t-o8

exWTslave

Dear defender of truth

Virtually every culture in the world has epics or stories that keep the memory of a Golden Age that once existed on earth where humans and animals lived like one-family, and all were vegetarians. At that time man was not hunting animals nor animals were preying on man or animals. When man became worshipers of ego, he began to use others—including animals as mere objects of his pleasure. This would sent out negative vibrations to environment and beings and threw everything out of balance. When man started hunting, animals too started it.

I saw one programme in Discovery Channel some time back. In India a famous river is considered to be sacred, and many people bring dead bodies to put on the sacred pyre near that river. Because of the rush, pyre keepers won’t get enough time to complete the rituals, hence they skillfully dispose residues of the flesh and bones of the dead body into the river. Fishes in this river would eat these residues. And if living humans try to swim or cross this particular river, these little fishes will come and attack human bodies as they are used to eating flesh. Yet interestingly, fishes in the nearby rivers do not behave this way to anybody—dead or alive.

In another programme in the same channel, a crocodile baby that never came in contact with any other crocodiles, but was grown among other domestic animals never showed the character of crocodile. Children in the house were using this (now) grown-up crocodile just like we use a horse. They ride on the crocodile to go to the other side of the river, do their shopping and will come back on crocodile loaded with items they purchased!

This explains how what humans do affect his surrounding for the good or bad. Because everything is connected. No wonder “people describe the world as a dynamic process, where there are no solid structures and everything is a flow of energy.” (Dr. Stanislow Grof, one of the primary founder of Trans Personal Psychology).

Same principle applies to THE NATURAL CALAMITIES too. If people are loving, nature too will be loving. If humans are careless, nature too will be careless—it’s all ccording to the vibrations we send. Because body is made up of the same elements as the physical world being composed of, and everything is connected! This is true of our own body. Body responds according to what we are within. Happy within, body reacts one way. If stressed out within, body too become diseased!

MadGiant

"To all those who want proof for the existence of God:
I AM THE PROOF." - ex

Believers all claim that their god answers prayer when from my experience all that's going on is something called selective observation, where a believer counts the hits and discounts the misses. Keep track, list the specific prayers you pray. Keep in mind that you generally will only pray for things which you expect can happen too. You do not pray that a mountain is uprooted and planted in the sea. So already your prayer requests are limited and already you do not pray for the kinds of things jesus told you could happen because you live in a scientific era. Then be brutally honest with the results. No fudging like horoscope readers regularly do.

Was the prayer answered exactly as you prayed it? No punting to what believers around the globe do, either. No saying, well god knows best, or that he didn't give me what I wanted but what I needed. Then see what happens. Then see how many times prayers are answered.

The bottom line is that I cannot believe. But even this should be no trouble for god if he exists. Just like he supposedly showed himself to Moses, Gibeon, and Paul he could do so for me. And if he could do that without abrogating their human freedom then he can do that with me too. Pray that this happens. I'm open to it. God could even snap his fingers and take away what he created me with, a critical mind. Then I wouldn't demand evidence any more and believe. Of course if not, the problem is why he created me this way and then doesn't provide what I need to believe. Crazy isn't it.

And today logical fallacies are:

appeal to emotion
You attempted to manipulate an emotional response in place of a valid or compelling argument.
Appeals to emotion include appeals to fear, envy, hatred, pity, pride, and more. It's important to note that sometimes a logically coherent argument may inspire emotion or have an emotional aspect, but the problem and fallacy occurs when emotion is used instead of a logical argument, or to obscure the fact that no compelling rational reason exists for one's position. Everyone, bar sociopaths, is affected by emotion, and so appeals to emotion are a very common and effective argument tactic, but they're ultimately flawed, dishonest, and tend to make one's opponents justifiably emotional.

And:

anecdotal
You used a personal experience or an isolated example instead of a sound argument or compelling evidence.
It's often much easier for people to believe someone's testimony as opposed to understanding complex data and variation across a continuum. Quantitative scientific measures are almost always more accurate than personal perceptions and experiences, but our inclination is to believe that which is tangible to us, and/or the word of someone we trust over a more 'abstract' statistical reality.

Ismael

galaxie

Ex wt,..I do agree if humans are more loving it will certainly be beneficial for our living environments.

However your accoubt of the crocodile and the childrenm.., who feeds the animal? Does it find its own food as nature intends?.

If it goes hungry the children would be in its belly NOT on its back with the shopping.

GET REAL!!!

Atheists and JWs are on the same footing!

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