Jesus was a false prophet?

by opusdei1972 78 Replies latest watchtower bible

Vanderhoven7

Actually the prophecy came true just as Jesus predicted
Phizzy

Yea Van, just ignore all evidence to the contrary, and carry on.
Vanderhoven7

Yea Van, just ignore all evidence to the contrary, and carry on.

What evidence do you believe has not been considered?
Vanderhoven7

Which generation is it referring to? When will The Tribulation happen? Jesus's words were clear as we read. It was his generation and the Tribulation is conected with Jerusalem's destruction: So, if Jesus did not come, he misled people.

And he said to them, "I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God come with power. (Mark 9:1)

The solution to the problem lies in distinguishing Christ's second (personal advent or parousia) from His non-personal coming (erchomai) in judgment on Jerusalem. The timing on the second coming/parousia was remote and unknowable, even to Jesus. In the verse you quoted Jesus was talking about the destruction of Jerusalem as you brought out.

The following parables are in line with Jesus's words you quoted.

Mar 12:9 What shall therefore the lord of the vineyard do?
He will come (ἔρχομαι erchomai) and destroy the husbandmen, and will give the vineyard unto others.

Matthew 21:

38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.

39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.

40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh (ἔρχομαι erchomai), what will he do unto those husbandmen?

41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.

42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.

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Luke 20:

13 Then said the lord of the vineyard, What shall I do? I will send my beloved son: it may be they will reverence him when they see him.

Luk 20:14 But when the husbandmen saw him, they reasoned among themselves, saying, This is the heir: come let us kill him, that the inheritance may be ours.

Luk 20:15 So they cast him out of the vineyard, and killed him. What therefore shall the lord of the vineyard do unto them?

Luk 20:16 He shall come (ἔρχομαι erchomai), and destroy these husbandmen, and shall give the vineyard to others. And when they heard it, they said, God forbid.

Luk 20:17 And he beheld them, and said, What is this then that is written, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner?

Luk 20:18 Whosoever shall fall upon that stone shall be broken; but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

Luk 20:19 And the chief priests and the scribes the same hour sought to lay hands on him; and they feared the people: for they perceived that he had spoken this parable against them.

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The Lord did come and destroy those husbandmen (leaders) using the Romans army when they destroyed Jerusalem and killed almost everyone in it. And He did leave their house desolate and gave the vineyard to others who would bring forth the fruit. The vineyard represents the kingdom.

Mat 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee into the next: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone through the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come (ἔρχομαι erchomai).

Luk 9:27 But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.

Mat 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming (ἔρχομαι erchomai)in his kingdom.

This coming in vengeance, would climax the tribulation and occur in the lifespan of Christ's own generation. (Matthew 24:34)

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming (ἔρχομαι erchomai), in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

This is exactly what happened in the lifetime of some standing there
tootired2care

“Remember that all these things will happen before the people now living have all died.” (Matthew 24:34 TEV)

“For the Son of Man [i.e. Jesus] is about to come in the glory of his Father with his angels, and then he will reward each one according to his deeds. I assure you [i.e. swear to you] that there are some here who will not die until they have seen the Son of Man [Jesus] come as King.” (Matthew 16: 27, 28 TEV)

- The stars would fall to earth (never happened & prophecy expired)
- The Great Tribulation & Rapture (never happened & prophecy expired)
- Judgment Day for all mankind (never happened & prophecy expired)
- The Second Coming of Jesus Christ (never happened & prophecy expired)
Vanderhoven7

Tootired, I'll repeat from the tribulation thread based largely on Marcellus Kik's work entitled "Matthew 24"

Matthew 24:29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days there will be signs in the sun, moon and stars, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give her light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and on the earth there will be distress of nations, in perplexity for the roaring of the sea and the billows, men fainting for fear, and for expectation of the things which are coming on the world, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken,”

Most people assume the vivid language must describe the end of
the world. But notice that this apocalyptic language is preceded
by the word "IMMEDIATELY". It was immediately after the
tribulation of those days that the sun would be darkened etc. The
Jewish nation was about to be darkened; virtually obliterated.
God, in His righteous wrath was removing the Jewish nation from
His heavens. As the moon, Judaism would no longer reflect the
Light of God; its stars, the prophets and Fathers would no longer
shine for Israel of the flesh.

QUESTION: Can we be justified in stating that the sun, moon and
stars are figurative of Judaism and its glories?

WHEN WE LET SCRIPTURE INTERPRET SCRIPTURE, we
find the same language in the OT depicting the destruction of
Babylon , Egypt, Tyre and Idumea.

Is.13:9, 10 is a prediction of God's judgment on Babylon
"Behold the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and
and fierce anger to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the
sinners thereof out of it. For the stars of heaven and the
constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be
darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light
to shine.

If the Holy Spirit speaking through the prophet Isaiah uses such
figurative language to describe the downfall of a heathen nation
like Babylon, how much more would not such language be used to
describe the downfall of the chosen nation of Israel?

Is.34:4,5 Regarding the destruction of the insignificant nation of
Idumea, Isaiah writes:
And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens
shall be rolled together as a scroll...
For my sword shall be bathed in heaven; behold it shall come
down upon Idumea, and upon the people of my curse, to
judgment.

If the Holy Spirit speaking through the prophet Isaiah uses such
figurative language to describe the downfall of such an
insignificant nation as Idumea, how much more would not such
language be used to describe the downfall of the chosen nation of
Israel?

Ez.32:2, 7,8 Ezekiel's prediction of God's judgment on Egypt
incorporates similar vivid language.
"Son of man, take up a lamentation for Pharaoh king of
Egypt...
And when I shall put thee out, I will cover the heaven, and I
will make the stars thereof dark; I will cover the sun with a
cloud, and the moon shall not give her light. All the bright
lights of heaven will I make dark over thee, and set darkness
upon thy land, saith the Lord God.

If the Holy Spirit speaking through the prophet Ezekiel uses such
figurative language to describe the downfall of a heathen nation
like Egypt, how much more would not such language be used to
describe the downfall of the chosen nation of Israel?
Acts 2:16-21 Is.19:1 Ps.97:2,3 Mat.26:64

OF COURSE THIS LANGUAGE CAN AND DOES APPLY TO
ISRAEL.

Dan.8:10-11, speaking of the conquest of Rome over Israel, says:
And it (one horn) waxed great, even to the host of heaven;
and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground,
and stamped on them. Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince
of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the
place of the sanctuary cast down. (See also Jer.4:26 Mt.26:64
Mat.16:28)
Vanderhoven7

Tootired:

“Remember that all these things will happen before the people now living have all died.”(Matthew 24:34 TEV)

Excellent transliteration....because it correctly identifies the generation that Jesus spoke about in verses 1 - 35

The Greek word “ genea” (pronounced ghen-eh-ah') appears thirteen times in Matthew's gospel. Four times it is used to delineate “one set of parents to the next”. Ignoring Matthew 24:34 for the moment, in every other appearance, including 6 of the instances Matthew places the definite article “this” (houtos) before “ generation”, “this generation” ( houtos genea), in context, clearly cover the same group of people -i.e. “Christ's contemporaries”

Mt 11:16 But to what shall I compare this generation ? It is like children sitting in the market places, who call out to the other children, (the persons then living contemporary with Christ)
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Mt 12:41 The men of Nineveh will stand up with this generation at the judgment, and will condemn it because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and behold, something greater than Jonah is here. (the persons then living contemporary with Christ)
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Mt 12:42 "The Queen of the South will rise up with t his generation at the judgment and will condemn it, because she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and behold, something greater than Solomon is here.(the persons then living contemporary with Christ).
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Mt 12:45 "Then it goes and takes along with it seven other spirits more wicked than itself.... That is the way it will also be with this evil generation ." (the persons then living contemporary with Christ)
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Mt 17:17 And Jesus answered and said, "You unbelieving and perverted generation , how long shall I be with you? How long shall I put up with you? ..."(the persons then living contemporary with Christ)
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Mt 23:36 "Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.
Reading Mt.23:36 in context again shows " the persons then living contemporary with Christ are being referred to:
29. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye build the sepulchres of the prophets, and garnish the tombs of the righteous, 30 and say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we should not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets. 31 Wherefore ye witness to yourselves, that ye are sons of them that slew the prophets. 32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers. :33 Ye serpents, ye offspring of vipers, how shall ye escape the judgment of Gehenna? 34 Therefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: some of them shall ye kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city: 35 that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of Abel the righteous unto the blood of Zachariah son of Barachiah, whom ye slew between the sanctuary and the altar. 3 6 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. ( the persons then living contemporary with Christ)
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Mt 24:34
"Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.
Vanderhoven7

JWs have it all wrong....according to this online article.

Times of the Gentiles:

"And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh . . . and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled." (Luke 21:20, 24)

The times of the Gentiles referred to the treading down, or desolation, of first century Jerusalem, which Jesus called "the days of vengeance". In other words, it was God's mission for the Gentiles to bring judgment upon Jerusalem. This is consistent with past judgments upon Israel, when God brought Gentiles armies into their land to desolate it.

The whole controversy centers on the duration of the treading down of Jerusalem. The Greek for "trodden" is pat-eh'-o (#3961 in Strong's Concordance), and it means "to trample down underfoot". The parallel to Lk.21:24 is seen in Revelation 11:2, which says:

"But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot (pateho) forty and two months."

The times of the Gentiles, or treading down of Jerusalem, entailed no more than a forty two month period of time, the exact duration of the Jewish-Roman War. This is in perfect harmony with Daniel 12:7, where the defining characteristic of "the time of the end" is said to be "the scattering of the power of the holy people", which we are told would be accomplished during "a time, times, and a half", or forty two months.
Crazyguy

There is a lot of evidence that the gospels were not even written before 165 AD. The coming of the new age is about the Zodiac. Jesus at first wasn't even a man but later ones were forced to convert then forced to say he was a real person...The gospels are not even accurate and contradict one another. Geographical information is wrong proving the ones that wrote the gospels were not from or ever been to Israel. And the execution and trial of Jesus could not of happened they way it is written for the jews would have broken 7 of their own laws to judge and kill him during the week of the sabbath. The 2 leaders that were listed were not alive together. There's more problems with the story I just listed a few.
ablebodiedman

Matthew 23:37-39

　"Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the killer of the prophets and stoner of those sent forth to her,—how often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks together under her wings! But YOU people did not want it. 38 　Look! YOUR house is abandoned to YOU. 39 　For I say to YOU, YOU will by no means see me from henceforth until YOU say, ‘Blessed is he that comes in Jehovah’s name!’"

The temple is no longer a "holy place"!

Matthew 24:15

　"Therefore, when YOU catch sight of the disgusting thing that causes desolation, as spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in a holy place, (let the reader use discernment,)

So what is the "holy place"?

Ephesians 2:19-22

　Certainly, therefore, YOU are no longer strangers and alien residents, but YOU are fellow citizens of the holy ones and are members of the household of God, 20 　and YOU have been built up upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, while Christ Jesus himself is the foundation cornerstone. 21 　In union with him the whole building, being harmoniously joined together, is growing into a holy temple for Jehovah. 22 　In union with him YOU, too, are being built up together into a place for God to inhabit by spirit.

abe

Jesus was a false prophet?

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