Romans 4:4 is Paul's attempt to deal with his own inability to confront his impulses in some meaningful way. Paul's difficulties with the Torah are paramount to understanding his rabid Antisemitism. Really a tragic figure, and to think over a billion people follow this disturbed individual.
Torah keepers,
by Mikado 23 Replies latest jw experiences
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Fernando
Whilst I do not know the "Torah Keepers" their name suggests they believe keeping the Law is a means of pleasing God and earning his favour.
Well, how did that work out for the Pharisees that did this meticulously, even building an additional fence around the Law?
(Matthew 23:23, 24) . . .“Woe to YOU, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because YOU give the tenth of the mint and the dill and the cumin, but YOU have disregarded the weightier matters of the Law, namely, justice and mercy and faithfulness. These things it was binding to do, yet not to disregard the other things. Blind guides, who strain out the gnat but gulp down the camel!
*** w80 5/1 p. 5 Learning from an Experiment That Failed *** (Possibly by Ray Franz)
THROUGHOUT history there have been numerous attempts to influence people toward a more righteous way of life. One such experiment was made by the Pharisees, a group that receives considerable attention in the inspired Christian Greek Scriptures. Their experiment failed. -
designs
The NT writers distorted the school of the Pharisees and the Sadduccees. The school begun about 100BCE was progressive for its time and introduced reformed ideas to Juadism. The Sadduccees kept a stricter view of the Torah.
Jesus on the other hand betrayed both the Torah and the Jewish people in siding with Rome.
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Band on the Run
The gospels are contradictory. Each has a different agenda. The Church fathers acknowledged discrepancies in express statements. John is very different th. an the synoptics in its Christology. The debate was whether to combine the four gospels and make it uniform so it could be used for universal worship. Acknowledging the discrepancies, the Church Father thought that discrepancies included, the four gospels should be used. A larger truth would be evident. Pretending the Bible is one uniform whole strips people of faith. Reading the text with no commentary shows it is not a magic book If one reads history texts, and understands the intended audience, faith may be increased. A literal, fundamentalist treatment strips one of faith.
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Perry
BOTR,
Thousands of people had faith in Christ Alone during his ministry and after he rose from the dead and presented himself to many. The bible isn't the object of faith for Christians, Jesus is ...... just as it was initially.
Since Pentecost, he presents himself to the believer in no less of a dramatic way now, than he did in the first century. This statement is based on my personal experience with him. Scripture confirms my experience to be identical as described in the bible.
"Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever" - Hebrews 13:8
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designs
Actually the first followers of Jesus kept the Torah so they Did Not have as you say "Christ Alone". No group that formed after that initial period had "Christ Alone" either, especially after Paul introduced his version of a Messiah and his Ecclesiastical Heirarchy.
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objectivetruth
I believe in Following The Torah, and the Laws found within it.
Usually when I tell someone this, they respond.. "So do you sacrifice animals" , "do you believe in slave ownership",etc..
Many Christians miss a very important statement of Christ found at Matthew 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."
The key word in this verse is "Fulfill" .. The translation of "to fulfill" is lekayem in Hebrew (le-KAI-yem), which means to uphold or establish, as well as to fulfill, complete or accomplish. The phrase "fulfill the Law" is often used as an idiom to mean to properly interpret the Torah so that people can obey it as God really intends.
In Matthew 5 Jesus proceeds to "fulfill" The Law (Properly Intrepret it)
At 5:38 we see “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth." 39. But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also."
Jesus Life & Ministry provided for us "The Way" or a perfect example to help us understand how to follow The Law.
The Law and The Prophets (The Old Testament) had many traditions of men, and fabrications added to it.. Things such as Stoning Homo Sexuals,Animal Sacrifice,Slavery?. Were not Commandments of God, they were commandments of Men.
We know this by Jesus words at John 12:49 " For I have not spoken on my own authority, but the Father who sent me has himself given me a commandment—what to say and what to speak." - The Father sent his Son to earth, to show people how to lI've Righteously as God intended.
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designs
Objective- You seem to be reading the NT with rose colored glasses.
Jews reject Jesus as the Messiah for some very basic reasons-
The Jewish Messiah is to be an ordinary human descended from the line of King David, as opposed to someone claiming to be God in the flesh.
The Jewish Messiah was/is to bring peace to the world (first time out) this man did not.
This Messiah is to support the Jewish people and bring them home to Israel and oversee the rebuilding of the Temple, Jesus did none of these.
The Jewish Messiah does not die, and he certainly does not die as a sacrifice for others (a very non-jewish concept introduced in the NT).
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objectivetruth
Designs - Peter said of Paul " as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures." 2 Peter 3:16
Christ followers followed the Correct Law their entire lives, this is seen all through out Acts, example Acts 21:20 "And when they heard it, they glorified God. And they said to him, “You see, brother, how many thousands there are among the Jews of those who have believed. They are all zealous for the law,"
Jesus did not Betray the Torah or the Jewish People, The Jewish People (Israelites) betrayed the father who gave them the Torah in the first place. There were 3 Sects of Judais, Jesus was a member of the Essenes, this Sect was righteous,holy and they Followed The true Torah.
Fernando - It's important to distinguish between Traditions of Men and Gods Laws.. Read Psalm 119, and you will gain an accurate understanding of the True Law of God, and the benefits it brings to those that follow it.. David Said of the Law " 97 Oh how I love your law! It is my meditation all the day ."
Mikado - The Bible makes perfect sense, only when you stop looking to it as a history book, and judging it thus.. and you start looking to it as a guide to Righteous Life and The Start of Truth.
Jesus did not say, "Understand The Bible, for the Kingdom of Heaven has drawn near" .. He said "Repent, for the kingdom of Heaven has drawn near" - This Bible is a guide to help you understand how to repent.
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designs
Yes Jesus of the Gospels certainly betrayed the Jewish people. He said something horrrible and totally Un-Messianic to the Jewish people- "you see the Temple, not a stone will be left upon another" Mark 13:2.
That alone disqualifies this person as the Messiah. This Jesus sides with Rome, the Empire that had its boot on the throat of the jewish people.
History is the greatest condemner of Jesus as the Messiah. Since the Jewish Messiah was to bring world peace it is obvious that 2000 years of violent history perpetrated by Jesus'Christians on each other and on their fellow humans shows that this Jesus is a fraud and certainly no God. Never once in 2000 has this Jesus lifted a finger to stop Christian violence.