Is Prophecy important? (page 4)

Hold Me-Thrill Me

Viviane: Until you can tell me what this "spirituality" thing is that I am lacking, you aren't saying anything

I did not say you were lacking anything. Please read more carefully. ;)

Viviane

The bottom line is, no one would ever have thought that two writing styles for two different topics in one book, Isaiah (that has historically always been recognized as one book, going back to 200 BC in the Septuagint), had to have multiple authors unless it predicted events in detail over a century in advance.

Again, you are attempting to tell people what they think while ignoring many other books of the Bible where the same textual analysis has revealed multiple authors and sources or that the books and passages could not possibly have been written by who they claim to have been written by when they were supposed to have been written.

You are making false claims about what scholars think when all you have to do is read what they have written to know what they think and why.

Also, there are several serious issues with chronology in the book of Isaiah. The first 39 chapters speak of the destruction as imminent. The second section speaks of it has having happened and restoration of Israel as a future event. The third section speaks of the restoration has having happened. Why would a person writing prophecy speak of it all in three different contextual time frames, will happened, happening now and has happened? If your model is to be believed, it was all future events, so why the change in mentioning yourself, writing style and tense?

Viviane

I did not say you were lacking anything. Please read more carefully.

You said this place was not spiritually encouraging. I am in this place and not encouraging spirituality, so, yeah, you did say that whether you realized it or not.

I am asking you what this spirituality is that this place, and therefore me, is lacking. Until you tell me what it is, you really can't say that it's lacking.

konceptual99

EA916/FusionTheism,

You can go round in circles trying prove the ancient texts are true as basically if you have eyes of "faith" then you can accept anything that is written. What was far more relevant to me when evaluating similar questions I had was what the F&DS had prophesied.

Take a look at ANYTHING the WTS has claimed will happen and see if you can find ONE example where it came to pass as they suggested. Don't be fooled by the WTS revisionist history on things like 1914. What did they say BEFORE the event and what actually happened?

I cannot find one thing in the past 140+ years of WTS history that is shows any kind of prophetic insight. Instead, all I find is revision, conjecture, speculation and spin.

If that is the case then you have to ask yourself why the Bible should be any different.

Hold Me-Thrill Me

Viviane: You said this place was not spiritually encouraging. I am in this place and not encouraging spirituality, so, yeah, you did say that whether you realized it or not. (underlining mine)

Viviane: I am asking you what this spirituality is that this place, and therefore me, is lacking. Until you tell me what it is, you really can't say that it's lacking. (underlining mine)

First you say you not encouraging spirituality (in the first quote above) then you turn around and ask me what spirituality is?

You should know since you already know you are not encouraging it. How can you discourage what you do not know/understand? Puzzling conversation, this.

Clambake

Getting back to the subject on hand , JW obsession with the book of Daniel and Revelation is not because they are sincere students of the scriptures, it is because playing da Vinci code with the bible gives them a smug sense of moral superiority. There are no mysteries to a JW because they have magical men in Brooklyn who have it all figured out , unlike the false religions of Christendom.

Does the average JW really understand it ………ha ……….not a chance.

I was raised in a plain old evangelical church and I was taught it was good to interested in this kind of stuff but there is also a danger in it also. There is no real point wasting all your time trying to crack codes and prove the unprovable.

As for the bible haters here, don’t waste your time with them. The bible is of remarkable connections. They are nothing more JWs, they just don’t know it. WTS are not trying to teach the bible, they are trying to disprove it. Isolating one verse at a time, while ignoring the big picture.

Viviane

First you say you not encouraging spirituality (in the first quote above) then you turn around and ask me what spirituality is?
You should know since you already know you are not encouraging it. How can you discourage what you do not know/understand? Puzzling conversation, this.

First, to not encourage is not the same as to discourage. One is passive, the other is active. For instance, I don't encourage people to eat hummus. That in no way means that I discourage people from eating hummus.

Secondly, to not encourage something in no way means I in no way have any idea what that thing is. I don't encourage people to use rhino banana teapot hockey stick positronic cellular ladles when serving beta meson burst Dalek souploaf either, because I've no idea what that is.

You are the one that said there was no spirituality, therefore you have to tell me what that means. You can't throw your burden of defining what you mean on me.

Viviane

As for the bible haters here, don’t waste your time with them. The bible is of remarkable connections. They are nothing more JWs, they just don’t know it. WTS are not trying to teach the bible, they are trying to disprove it. Isolating one verse at a time, while ignoring the big picture.

Who are you imagining to be Bible haters? Who claimed to hate the Bible in this conversation? Why are you accusing people who critically analyze books and ideas as JWs, who are told to uncritically accept belief and to NOT analyze things? Why are you attempting to claim that not A = A? Why do you claim someone critical of the Bible was isolating text when that was the only person that suggested (and did) that we look at the entire passage and book of Isaiah?

In other words, why are you attempting to claim the exact opposite of reality?

Hold Me-Thrill Me

Viviane,

In the short time I've been here I have not seen you be passive about anything religious. No, you are very active, forthright and quite forceful in your opposition to religion.

I admire that, believe it or not. To be ready to skillfully defend a stand is something beautiful and you do it consistently with a verbal sword that cuts through the fat. Good for you.

Secondly, to not encourage something in no way means I in no way have any idea what that thing is.

I can say I understand what being a woman is but in no way can I truly understand what being a woman is because I am not a woman. You may intellectually understand what is meant by spiritual or spirituality but unless you experience it for yourself you have no way of truly understanding what is meant.

I will not participate in efforts to divide the flesh from its fat in order to satisfy an atheistic pursuit to put down religious beliefs.

Respectfully said and meant.

Frank

Xanthippe

Welcome EA916. No I don't think prophecies are important. Do you know of a prophecy that has ever come true? People have been giving prophecies for a very long time. In Ancient Greece the oracle or Sybil would give predictions for the future. Look up Nostrodamus who lived in the 16th century and fortold the future. It's not limited to the Bible.

I think when people are living in difficult circumstance, economically, personally or with health problems they have often looked to something supernatural for help. Now we look to scientific answers and modern medicine. Particularly in the past people were at the mercy of disease and cruel political tyrants. Happily the world has changed for the better for many of us. Where there are still terrible diseases and political tyranny we can help through international charities.

Is Prophecy important?

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