If you don't believe in God, Jesus, and everything in the Bible, you are willfully ignorant. (page 5)

defender of truth

ABLEBODIEDMAN
[First of all, apologies for not posting the Youtube video. I didn't want to post it because I no longer promote any such religious belief. Maybe I should have done. It was not a deliberate attempt to change the context or keep people away from it in case they are converted.]
Now then...

Ablebodiedman said:
"There is so much evidence"
(You have still only provided a Youtube video, what else do you have to offer as evidence?)

You also said:

"The overwhelming amount of evidence should drive any thought of scepticism well beyond any reasonable limits."..and..
"There is lots more after that!
or
You could just remain wilfully ignorant."

In other words: 'if you aren't convinced by the so-called evidence for the Bible and God, you are an unreasonable skeptic and if you don't watch this Youtube video about some other persons views on an old book (that is a contradictory mess to anyone who reads it as they would a normal book, without changing what the words say)
, you are being willfully ignorant of Gods existence. If only you had watched this Youtube video and examined some other unspecified evidence, you too would believe in everything in the Bible.'

The full comment has not changed the meaning of what you said, just hidden it behind excessive words, a common technique of many apologist types.
I've watched the video, and I still don't believe in Jesus. I guess that makes me even worse than ignorant.

My motive? I wanted to highlight the view that many of the 'Bible preaching' kind of believers espouse.. ''Atheists just decide to ignore all of the evidence for the God of the Bible (Jesus/YHWH/Jehovah depending on denomination).
They are unthinking, unreasonable skeptics that should have read x or y publication rather than remain in ignorance''.
Fine. Just WHAT IS the evidence for the existence of the divine Jesus, let alone a Theistic God of any kind? This is an opportunity to save me and others from a lifetime of atheism ending in destruction at the hands of Jesus.
Or is that video all that you have?

I notice that you haven't responded to my question as to whether you believe in the verses in 2 Thessalonians, but I expected that.

>>In fact Ablebodiedman, I'll bet £10, to be donated to your favourite non-religious charity via online methods (pm me with the exact charity, don't post it for privacy reasons), that you won't give a direct yes/no reply (with a brief explanation) to this question:
"Do you believe that those who don't believe in Jesus will be destroyed, when he comes at some time in the future, as stated at 2Thessalonians 1:7-9?"

If the answer is no, then you don't believe 'everything in the Bible' yourself, and you have joined the 'ignorant' masses who don't trust the Bible. It might not be long before you start to wonder why you put your trust in a character from that book.

defender of truth

I've been thinking. I apologise again, the title should have been
.....
''If you don't believe in God, Jesus and the Bible; then you are either willfully ignorant of the massive amount of evidence, or an unreasonable skeptic''.
.....
Either way, this thread isn't here to have a go at some avatar called ablebodiedman.

If you are an atheist reading this now, what evidence or books did you consider before coming to the conclusion you did?
If you are a theistic Christian, what evidence convinced you that Jesus existed and the Gospels were trustworthy?
Thanks.

defender of truth

Sorry, double post

Finkelstein

If you are an atheist reading this now, what evidence or books did you consider before coming to the conclusion you did?

The bible.

If you do not understand ancient mythology then you'll never understand the bible the writings and why the words in the bible were written in the first place .

.

The Christan god believer intensionally blocks out information that would put doubt and injury to their held beliefs, that doesn't change the facts within reality itself.

sunny23

Good point Defender. Just read the entire first chapter of 2Thess. It should be called Logical Messalonians:

2Thess ch1:

2 May you have undeserved kindness and peace from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

3 We are obligated always to give thanks to God for you, brothers. This is fitting, because your faith is growing exceedingly and the love of each and every one of you is increasing toward one another.+ 4 As a result we ourselves take pride in you+ among the congregations of God because of your endurance and faith in all your persecutions and the hardships* that you are suffering.*+ 5 This is a proof of the righteous judgment of God, leading to your being counted worthy of the Kingdom of God, for which you are indeed suffering.+

6 This takes into account that it is righteous on God’s part to repay tribulation to those who make tribulation for you.+ 7 But you who suffer tribulation will be given relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus+ from heaven with his powerful angels+ 8 in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance on those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus.+ 9 These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction+ from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength, 10 at the time when he comes to be glorified in connection with his holy ones and to be regarded in that day with wonder among all those who exercised faith, because the witness we gave met with faith among you.

11 To that very end we always pray for you, that our God may count you worthy (deserving)of his calling+ and with his power perform completely all the good that he pleases and every work of faith. 12 This is so that the name of our Lord Jesus may be glorified in you and you in union with him, according to the undeserved kindness of our God and of the Lord Jesus Christ." -NWT2013

^^ THAT is a letter written to a congregation and in present tense concerning Christ's approaching imminent revelation and glorious destruction of mostly all those who didn't write or read this letter(and subsequent approved congregations). It uses terms "we, us, you" and is addressed as if these things will happen in their lifetime...FAIL. Notice it also starts and finishes with the mentioning of God's peace and his giving "Undeserved Kindness!" Now if I were to exhibit "undeserved kindness" to my daughter, it would be in treating her with gentle kindness when I feel that her actions are undeserving of kindness but I give it anyway. In other words, she wouldn't have to meet certain criteria to deserve my kindness, I would give it no matter what, out of peace and love. However this scripture says that God will destroy with fire those that don't even know of him. How do they "deserve" punishment by a God of Undeserved Kindness? The writer also notes to be sure to pray so that God will count the reader as deserving of His Undeserving Kindness. Someone's lost their marbles!!

defender of truth

Finkelstein, good point.
“Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived.” - Isaac Asimov

ablebodiedman

"Do you believe that those who don't believe in Jesus will be destroyed, when he comes at some time in the future, as stated at 2Thessalonians 1:7-9?"

Yep!

abe

ablebodiedman

However this scripture says that God will destroy with fire those that don't even know of him. How do they "deserve" punishment by a God of Undeserved Kindness?

Read it again.

The undeserved kindness is towards the people that DO know him!

abe

cofty

Yep!

What does that say about your moral compass?

sunny23

So knowing God is a qualification required to receive his undeserved kindness. "If you haven't heard about me, I kill you." Nice

If you don't believe in God, Jesus, and everything in the Bible, you are willfully ignorant.

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