If you don't believe in God, Jesus, and everything in the Bible, you are willfully ignorant. (page 9)

defender of truth

He said 'objective morality', not subjective morality, BOTR. He didn't say that believers are without morals.
Do you have a comment to make on the topic?: 'Is willful ignorance required, in order to not believe in God, Jesus, and everything in the Bible?'

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ABLEBODIEDMAN and RJHarris, please see the previous page with responses and questions for you, from quite an interesting discussion up to now. <<

sunny23

RJHarris how can you be sure of even what Jesus "said" in the bible?

Note this:

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"The earliest works — some of Paul’s Epistles — date to about the middle of the first century. Like the Gospels that followed, they were written by hand, and successors were copied by hand. Mistakes occasionally crept in.Moreover, with Christianity in its infancy and the earliest Christians still trying to clarify the full meaning of Jesus, his mission and his stories, the texts themselves sometimes changed from generation to generation, said Warren.

As archeologists and historians in later years uncovered more early manuscripts, each one hand-copied from some predecessor, they could see occasional additions or subtractions from a phrase, a verse or a story.The changes are called “variants.”

Most changes are inconsequential, the result of mere copying errors, or the replacement of a less common word for a more common word.But others are more important. They meant something.

For example, the famous tale in John’s Gospel in which Jesus challenges a mob about to stone a woman accused of adultery — “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her” — is a variant that copyists began inserting into John at least 300 years after that Gospel first appeared.

In the conclusion to Mark, the description of Jesus appearing to various disciples after his resurrection does not appear in the earliest manuscripts.And in Luke, the crucified Jesus’ plea that his executioners be forgiven “for they know not what they are doing” likewise does not appear in the earliest versions of his Gospel." -Nola.com

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So even after you bash the bible for its vast lack of credibility you state Jesus words as fact? Maybe I misinterpreted what you were getting at. How can you be sure of anything that someone attributed to Jesus as having said in the bible ever? Also you said this "The Bible is NOT the Word of God, Christ is. It is blasphemous to stand up a book that men themselves authorized and gave a name to next to the Christ and call it the Word of God." But didn't Jesus quote the old testament. Was that blasphemy lol?

Also to ABE..According to 2Thessalonians, Will Jesus destroy even those who do not know him (for example, a person in a part of the world that is never exposed to The Word ever)? Answer Yes or No please

Finkelstein

I think a person can be willfully ignorant to not realize the intent of the original writers of the Gospel to what they were trying to do.

...... to make the world a better place.

PYRAMIDSCHEME

I am also willfully ignorant of the pleasures of Meth, and I prefer it that way. Some things are better left unlearned.

cofty

Cofty, I remain a believer and I have morals. - BOTR

I am sure you do but you did not get those morals from the bible. Believers bring their morals to the book and filter what they read - thank god!

My point was about the impossibility of making good moral decisions while being consistant with your theism.

ablebodiedman

Abe quit redirecting the question to me. My question is this, Do you believe that Jesus will personally destroy even those who do not know him (for example, a person in a part of the world that is never exposed to The Word)? Answer Yes or No please :-)

No.

ablebodiedman

Wow ablebodiedman would fit in well with the Taliban or al-queda.

I don't see their moral compass in anyway associated with what Jesus Christ said in the Sermon on the Mount.

Your statement does not make sense.

abe

ablebodiedman

So according to ablebodiedman's moral compass genocide and slavery are okay, check! It's amazing in the year 2014 people still want to reach their children this nonsense of a religion.

Once again I don't see anything about that in the Sermon on the Mount.

On the other hand I do see supposedly civilized democratic governments regularly engaged in genocide, slavery and torture with the full support of over 50% of their population.

abe

ablebodiedman

Ablebodiedman, will God destroy mentally handicapped people who can't even learn or understand the Gospel?
Why does Jesus have to kill people who don't understand his message?

No, the scriptures explain that the afflicated are the ones who will be blessed.

Isaiah 29:18-21

　And in that day the deaf ones will certainly hear the words of the book, and out of the gloom and out of the darkness even the eyes of the blind ones will see. 19　And the meek ones will certainly increase their rejoicing in Jehovah himself, and even the poor ones of mankind will be joyful in the Holy One of Israel himself,

on the other hand:

20　because the tyrant must reach his end, and the bragger must come to his finish, and all those keeping alert to do harm must be cut off, 21　those bringing a man into sin by [his] word, and those who lay bait even for the one reproving in the gate, and those who push aside the righteous one with empty arguments.

abe

ablebodiedman

Ablebodiedman:"That everything was created by God and it is entirely up to him to decide what is moral or just.
The determination of what is moral does not belong to the people who he created."
ABLEBODIEDMAN, I ask..Why not? And WHY does God get to decide for all of us what is moral? Is it:
A) Because God said so
B) Because we owe him our lives.
C) Because He has more experience after aeons of existence, and He believes this makes him more able to decide what is moral.. Which of course brings us back to A.
....
If it is A, then He is nothing more than a ruthless dictator who kills anyone who disagrees with him.
If it is B, then our parents must have the moral right to kill us, because we would not exist if they did not create us and decide to bring us into the world.
Or if we were to create a clone of a human being, we would have the moral right to tell it what to say and think, enslave it, or kill it as we wished.
Does that match up with your belief regarding morals?
Would you let your child, or the clone you created, do what they wanted, without killing them for exercising their freedom of mind in a way that runs contrary to your way of doing things?

Already answered:

That everything was created by God and it is entirely up to him to decide what is moral or just.
The determination of what is moral does not belong to the people who he created."

abe

If you don't believe in God, Jesus, and everything in the Bible, you are willfully ignorant.

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