How to Avoid the Faithless Spirit of most here-

by DocHouse 104 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • AndDontCallMeShirley
    AndDontCallMeShirley

    1- Pray to God (whomever you may imagine him to be) asking for understanding

    So if god gives understanding, as you claim, and all a person has to do is ask, why did you list points 2-6?

    Wouldn't study and research indicate a lack of faith in the god you just prayed to?

    James 1: 5- If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you.

    So how do explain the same confusion now among the religious that has existed for millenia? Your god must suck at answering prayers...

  • NAVYTOWN
    NAVYTOWN

    It's a good idea to be faithfully faithless.

  • millie210
    millie210

    I am sensing a theme on most threads lately.

    The haves (faith) and the have nots (faith)

  • DocHouse
    DocHouse

    How about your FIRST one?

    Stucky, you have to give SOME kind of references to claims such as " How about the fact that the god of the bible is one of the most self centered, vicious, murderous, despot in all history".

    Please, if capable, give a specific example.

  • DocHouse
    DocHouse

    When it comes to religion- it's those that have REAL Faith (in the True God) or those with pretend faith (imaginary gods).

    Otherwise, you are simply faithless.

  • MadGiant
    MadGiant

    Ok, like you subjected, I am gonna see the Bible (from non-religious sources), will discard church claims and dogma, read the book, looking up archaeological/historical sources about the places and peoples referred to. I will be critical about my findings. This is my conclusion.

    There are myriad problems to be found when attempting to reconcile the Bible’s account of ancient history with the known historical record. Again, these are inaccuracies which would not be expected from an omnipotent being, but would absolutely be expected from a 2,000 year old author with a limited historical and scientific frame of reference. Take, for example, the story of Noah and the Great Flood, a significant event that, even if it were not worldwide but localized to one region, would have made the historical records of many ancient civilizations. Many Christian scholars believe that it was localized, not a global flood, which explains its absence from the ancient record. The Bible itself says:“6 The LORD regretted that he had made mankind on the earth, and he felt highly offended. 7 So the LORD said, “I will wipe mankind, whom I have created, from the face of the earth-everything from mankind to animals, including creatures that move on the ground and birds of the air, for I regret that I have made them.” … 11 The earth was ruined in the sight of God; the earth was filled with violence.”This clearly did not happen, but it was also far from the first “Great Flood” story of the ancient world, another mythological element that has echoed across cultures for millennia. And while it’s easy to argue for the validity of parables and metaphors as a means to understanding human nature and morality, the opposite case can also be made; that it has become unnecessary for us as a species. We have developed into civilized people that understand the concept of morality simply being good for our continued survival.

    It should be noted that the idea of a divine savior of the human race is practically as old as the human race itself, and has resurfaced continually, echoing throughout our culture for thousands of years. The virgin birth, significance of the solstices, the miracles, disciples, baptism, crucifixion, resurrection—along with many even more specific elements like heaven and hell, the soul, holy communion and others, were all seen before in multiple ancient pagan religions. An examination of the ancient pagan religions predating Jesus—those surrounding Horus, Mithra, Dionysus, Krishna and many others—yields an astounding number of similarities that cannot be explained away as coincidence. These stories seem to be a part of ancient Mediterranean culture.

    Greek, Roman, Norse and other mythologies that we studied in school, most of us probably consider them to have the same level of actual historical significance, or value to our modern culture, as The Lord Of The Rings. That is not to say that they have little or no value, these mythologies were an important part of the development of human intellect and understanding of the world, of which we had very little at the time of their inception. From an atheist point of view, it can be argued that we still had very little understanding of the the way our world works two thousand years ago, and that the application of different aspects of pagan myth to the Christian gospels makes sense, many ancient mythologies borrowed from each other, as we know from our study of the very similar Roman and Greek mythologies and all of their various analogues (Zeus and Jupiter, Venus and Aphrodite, etc.) of the same deity archetypes. These ancient mythologies weren’t myths to the people who created them, they were religion, their way of explaining the world and its mechanics. Mount Olympus was simply the highest mountain in Greece, and to the ancient Greeks it was their version of heaven, and Zeus their version of God.This holds true for all ancient and pagan belief systems, which also illustrates the point that Christianity did not bring religion, the concept of salvation, or even monotheism to the world, these things had been in place for centuries. Christianity, Islam and other such belief systems (and there are many similarities there as well) can be seen simply as the myths that have somehow survived to this day.

    The Bible is, obviously, an extremely old text with dozens of interpretations throughout the centuries. The term Christian itself is a rather a blanket term for a dizzying array of belief systems, very few of whom are in complete agreement as to how the Bible should be interpreted or even in what context specific passages should be taken. Atheists do have trouble reconciling that the Word Of God, infallible as it should be, would be so open to such wildly varying interpretations—but what they have more trouble with are the passages in the Bible that clearly have absolutely no bearing on any sane, modern system of beliefs and morals. Most are aware of the passages that provide for the keeping of slaves, the wanton murder of homosexuals and adulterers, the selling of children and other such things which have no place in civilized society, let alone in texts that are considered to be holy. Yes, these things were common 2,000 years ago, but that’s the point, that these do not appear to be the suggestions and guidance of an all-knowing and loving God, but rather of men, not prophets, just men, who were very much of their time. An omnipotent God would have demonstrated an understanding of basic human rights long before we humans got around to realizing, for instance, that slavery is wrong.

    Thanks, I am open to criticism, analysis and questioning.

    Ismael

  • stuckinarut2
    stuckinarut2

    As I stated doc,

    The god of the bible kills (or supposedly authorises to be killed) anyone he wants...and usually its the people who are just using the gift of free will that he supposedly gave them!

    Thats like saying to a child "here is a piece of candy...I gave it to you because I love you...but if you eat it , I will kill you"

    Try defending that Doc....

    If you cant, I suggest you go to an apologist forum instead of this one....

  • yadda yadda 2
    yadda yadda 2

    I followed your steps 2-5 and lost my faith.

    But you can save yourself a lot of time by simply and honestly answering this question posed by the great British philosopher David Hume:

  • DocHouse
    DocHouse

    Strucky refused to give a specific example, and gave this flimsy spin instead: "As I stated doc,The god of the bible kills (or supposedly authorises to be killed) anyone he wants...and usually its the people who are just using the gift of free will that he supposedly gave them!Thats like saying to a child "here is a piece of candy...I gave it to you because I love you...but if you eat it , I will kill you"

    Try defending that Doc...."

    Glad to- if you gave an example of where He did this.

    How many times do I have to ask for one; or you just another of the endless clowns here?

  • MadGiant
    MadGiant

    "When it comes to religion- it's those that have REAL Faith (in the True God) or those with pretend faith (imaginary gods). Otherwise, you are simply faithless." -

    Will you help me discern between the "real gods" And the imaginary gods"? Their are literally 100,000 of them, all real, all true, all god(s)

    Respectfully,

    Ismael

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