What does the average Witness know?

Grunt

I have to wonder what the average Witness today knows? I guess they are under orders not to talk to anyone that might actually be able to inform them of any facts that are negative or unflattering to the Society, but what have they found out anyway, through whatever means, even the publications?

1. Do they know that Russell got a lot of dates from the measurements of pyramids, including 1914? I wonder if the average Witness knows where he is buried, or that he has a pyramid on his grave?

2. Does the average witness know that the Society teaches that Christ is not their mediator? Most I have talked to don't but it has been printed a lot of different places at a lot of different times. I would like to know just how many are really aware of it or its implications.

3. Does the average "publisher" realize that the organization decided to make the publications available for "donations" to avoid taxes? That it was done AFTER having been involved in a court case as a legal "friend" to Jimmy Swaggart while he fought those taxes, or that they still charge for the publications in other places with different tax laws? Places where money is much more scarce?

4. Could the average Witness know about all the components of blood being legal or about material made from cow's blood being approved in some cases by the Organization? I hope they know, it means thier lives and the lives of their loved ones. I tried to tell my father this and he shook his head, "Son, we don't take blood, any blood at all!" He doesn't know almost all blood parts are ok, and could die as a result. I wish he knew.

5. Are most of the members of the congregation aware of the flip-flops of the past on everything from all Witnesses being ministers, refusing alternative service, the changed understands on what fornication was, the uproar and divorces caused over the Organization's changed views on oral sex, the change saying transplants are ok from taking transplants being cannibalism? If they do know, I wonder if they have thought about how many lives were ruined by the "old" views and of the humiliation of the people because of them?

6. Do you think the big change on "This Generation" impacted the regular people who make up the organization very hard? Do they know about all the changes in ages to support it before it was dropped? How the ages of the "generation" were stretched before it was dropped? Did they think about it and just how enormous that change was in relation to all the statements they had made about it? Or did they just gulp and swallow it all like castor oil and refuse to think about it?

7. Do you think most Witnesses have lost loved ones to "apostasy" seen young relatives walk away, and lost their confidence in the Watchtower Society as being the TRUTH, the only ones with the truth?

I wonder if the average Witness is troubled, especially the older ones who were in back before 75. I just wonder if they feel a little sick as they read the same old jargon and remember their history. I wonder if there is anything the Society could do that they wouldn't pardon or refuse to see? I guess the many immediate family members here whose only sins have been to point out such flaws are a partial answer to that.

Andyman

Yes, the saddest thing is that no matter what you prove to them, no matter how many sources of information you provide, no matter how many people show them, the average JW will simply shrug it all off and continue to follow the "organization"!

They want everyone they meet at the doors to give them a chance to prove how wrong other religions are, but try doing it with them, try showing them how "wrong" their religion is and it's a whole different ball game!

In their own words:

*** g78 8/22 3 Do Others Do Your Thinking? ***

Propaganda has power. Does it overpower you? Or do you have a mind of your own?
EDUCATION teaches you how to think. Propagandists tell you what to think. True educators present all sides of an issue and encourage discussion. Propagandists hammer hard on their view and discourage discussion Many times their true motives are hidden. They sift the facts, tell the favorable ones and conceal the others. They distort and twist facts, specialize in lies and half-truths. Your emotions, not your logical thinking abilities, are their target. Many fall easy prey because it takes no effort to feel, whereas thinking is hard labor. And the propagandist sees to it that his message is made to seem wise, the right and moral one, and gives you a sense of importance and belonging if you follow it. You are one of the smart ones, you are not alone, you are comfortable and secure—so they say."

Ironic, isn't it?

Take care.

Andyman:

waiting

8. Does the average - longtime - witness know that while he wrote letters to the Malawi government to state his plea to stop the slaughter of Jehovah's Witnesses for not buying a $.25 political card.......elders in Mexico wrote to the Society for guidance on how to approach their legal, ethical, problem.

What problem? While the Malawi families were slaughtered for being totally non-involved in the government - the Mexican brothers were joining the military, and then buying their way out of serving. They wrote to the Society because they were feeling a tad guilty about the situation.

The Society's response? (paraprased) "Do as others do in Mexico. It's the way down there. However, if you're caught, we won't be able to help you." So the Mexican brothers continued to join the military and then deliver payoffs....while the Malawian brothers continued to be slaughtered for the sake of Jehovah's vindication.

Photocopies of this event can be found in Crisis of Conscience - Ray Franz.

Good thread, Grunt.

waiting

detective

My jw friend did not know that organ transplants were banned. He was in the organization during that prohibition, but only a wee one at the time.

I'm thinking he probably doesn't know he could pull out a telescope point it at Pleides and see Jah waving back at him!

Now that's good news!

Will Power

Great post Grunt

2. Does the average witness know that the Society teaches that Christ is not their mediator? Most I have talked to don't but it has been printed a lot of different places at a lot of different times. I would like to know just how many are really aware of it or its implications.

When I asked that question, I was met with a pen and paper. Now this is how it goes....Me - Jesus - God but the other way was God - Society - Me??????? wait a minute God - Jesus - Society????? hang on Me - Society - Jehova........um, I gotta go, I'm late for something, What are you doing? I gotta go, me - JehxxxJesxxxSoci, WHO HAS PUT YOU UP TO THIS? mmmmmm gotta go. ahem.
You know, we are the only Christ like organization, errrr, we are the only ones that have restored God's name in the bible. We are in 237 lands.

Yeah, whatever.

I wonder if there is anything the Society could do that they wouldn't pardon or refuse to see? I guess the many immediate family members here whose only sins have been to point out such flaws are a partial answer to that.

Absolutely Not.

Sam Beli

Grunt, my dad sounds much like yours does. He too has denied that JWs “take any blood what-so-ever” even though we have been over the subject several times. He is old and no longer has the sharp mind of his youth, though it was in his youth that he became hooked by the JWs.

My dad is a “society man,” still an elder and not very sharp mentally. He is one of the leading teachers in his congregation, often conducting the WT study. Does that tell you something of the state of teaching in JW KHs today?

None of the JWs in their 80s and 90s that I have observed show any inclination to see the WTS for what it is. Those of younger generations may stay, but often for different reasons. It is the much younger generations, IMHO, that are more often leaving. These are the computer literate and the better educated.

The mentally and emotionally weak may always stay with the WTS, but time will tell.

Sam Beli

"...religion opposes the commandments of Almighty God." Violence by J. F. Rutherford 1938

Frenchy

Good post, Grunt.

It's a frigtening thing for one who is no longer in bondage to look at those that are and are unable to see the bonds which enslave them so. It's especially frightening when you realize that YOU were like that at one time.

Perry

The really sad part is that many know that they support a lying murderous brotherhood. Oh yes, they immediately purge such thoughts from their mind, but deep down they know.

They know the truth when they are lying in bed wide awake at 3 in the morning unable to sleep.

They know when they see major foundational doctrines reverse.

They know when they see the society cheat Ceasar out of his due.

They know when they see members commit suicide.

They know when they pick up on the warped twisted manipulative self worshipping rhetoric in the publications.

They know when they are privy to the filth that goes on in the congregations.

They know when they see the effects of hypocritical destructive policies exposed by family members or in the media.

What incredible cowards they are not to simply stop the madness and stand up with some backbone and say, enough is enough already - regardless of personal cost

Their rationalization? Simply this: It must be ok because Jehovah has allowed all this with his people; where else could we go?

That reasoning will ring hollow when standing before their Judge. It has already rung hollow with me.

waiting

They also know when you're talking to them. You make a point, they stop for a moment and then say "Well, I'm remaining faithful to Jehovah's Organization."

Which, in essence, means that they've chosen to keep their eyes and ears closed and say lalalalalalalalalalala.

Perhaps if enough little thumps hit their closed minds - they might open. It happened to us.

waiting

Pathofthorns

Most know it is an imperfect organization with "some" flaws that has made "some" mistakes. I think most still believe it is "the truth" and that "there is nowhere else to go".

When presented with specific reasons why the organization is wrong, many just don't want to go there or they simply don't care. I think there are just a handful that understand the big picture and yet continue actively supporting this arrangement.

Path

What does the average Witness know?

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