Question to any practicing JWs

by Mr. Falcon 21 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Mr. Falcon
    Mr. Falcon

    I ask you to consider this scenario:

    A devoutly Born-Again Christian man, who strives to live every facet of his life in accordance with what is written in the Gospels, spends all of his time helping the poor, reading his Bible cover-to-cover, living an austere life and genuinely feels that his life is motivated by his love of Christ. A “real” Christian in practice, both public and private. He avoids joining any institutional organized religion, as he sees the Bible as God’s message to HIM, and Christ’s ransom sacrifice a gift to HIM. But he is for all intents and purposes blameless and exemplary in his love to his family, neighbors and God.

    One day he has some Jehovah’s Witness knock on his door to try to preach to him about “The Truth”, something that only THEY have. They speak about how all other Christian denominations are false and only Jehovah’s Organization, which manifests itself in the form of the Watchtower & Bible Tract Society has the real and correct understanding of the Bible; even going so far as to offer him a free bible study from a book actually titled “What the Bible Really Teaches”.

    So now this man is faced with, quite frankly, a challenge to his faith. He has dedicated his entire life and being to Jesus and the Ransom Sacrifice as understood in the Christian theology. His life has been a true and undeniable testament to the concept of “Christian Love”.

    My question is this: Could such a person be eligible for the benefits of the Ransom WITHOUT accepting the Watchtower as God’s channel here on Earth? How would you, as a practicing Jehovah’s Witness, answer that?

    Mental gymnastics aside, that question can be answered in only three ways. “Yes”, “No”, or “I don’t know.” I wish to consider each response and its unavoidable implications.

    If you answer “Yes”, then you negate the entire purpose for going around trying to fulfill what you interpret as Jesus’ commandment to “go and make disciples” (convincing people that you have “The Truth”).

    An answer of “No” would indicate that this man’s lifetime endeavor to follow the model of Christ as depicted from the Bible was all a waste of his time. As noble as it was, such a consecrated way of life is wholly in vain, because he does not see his salvation as contingent upon whether he dedicated himself to a publishing company based out of North Jersey. He needs to recognize the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses as God’s “Faithful and Discreet Slave” and follow THEIR interpretations. In this respect, belief in the ransom sacrifice of Jesus, rests not on faith in the Messiah, but faith in the Watchtower Organization. The position of Redeemer has been usurped by the Watchtower.

    One could always seek to avoid the question or defer it by admitting that they “just don’t know”. But this echoes of the reply of “Yes” as described above. If you don’t know the fundamental answer as to eligibility for Christ’s Ransom, then knocking on people’s doors with “The Truth” and spouting such other absolutes would ring a bit hollow, yes?

    Again, all the twisting and turning to try to explain this question does NOT make the question invalid. It is a very simple question.

  • sir82
    sir82

    Answering "as a JW", my answer would be "No".

    I would probably cite John 4:24 about worshipping with "spirit and truth", and if the born-againer didn't belive "the truth" as taught by JWs, then his worship would have been in vain.

    In my most zealous days I'd probably throw in a Matthew 7 reference as well..."Lord Lord did we not perform many powerful works in your name?....Get away from me you workers of lawlessness".

    A sly JW would say "Jehovah is the judge" while smiling smugly and thinking to himself "Born again? That guy is such a goat!"

  • Mr. Falcon
    Mr. Falcon

    sir82, I would've answered the same way based on my mindset back in my kool-aid days. However, if you consider such an answer objectively, it is still making commitment to the Watchtower Society the determining factor as regards the Ransom. Saying "Jehovah is judge" doesn't remove this built-in premise to their ideology.

  • sir82
    sir82

    I agree, but an active JW doesn't view his dedication as "dedicated himself to a publishing company based out of North Jersey."

    If you've got several hours to kill and several thousand suicidal brain cells, you could engage any number of JW apologists in a debate.

  • wallsofjericho
    wallsofjericho

    I actually heard a comment from a brother a couple years ago that his CO brother in law suggested that the WTS is leaning toward the idea that good hearted non-JW's could possibly survive Armageddon based on their heart condition. That we can't judge anyone since they may in fact be spared by Jehovah

    I was surprised to hear that but I knew the CO personally and that is why is Bro in law told me.

    so whatever that means.........

  • Mr. Falcon
    Mr. Falcon

    I agree, but an active JW doesn't view his dedication as "dedicated himself to a publishing company based out of North Jersey."

    TRUTH.

    Delusion will derail any attempt to apply reason.

  • Justnowout
    Justnowout

    As a faking JW i would leave it at the scriture in romans that says we are accused or excused by our concince.... However that answer relates directly to the 'yes' model where it invalidates the preaching work.

    the problem is dubbies will fall back and remind you that preaching is for the 'saved' (so to speak) but rather they are lookimg for those that would actually benefit from the goodnews, whos lives are screwed up etc etc. they would also poimt out their obligation to preach in the face of beimg blood guilty. Your isolated example of a "perfect" man is just one in a million and not a typical scenario they enter regularly or even often.

  • Mr. Falcon
    Mr. Falcon

    I actually heard a comment from a brother a couple years ago that his CO brother in law suggested that the WTS is leaning toward the idea that good hearted non-JW's could possibly survive Armageddon based on their heart condition. That we can't judge anyone since they may in fact be spared by Jehovah

    I was surprised to hear that but I knew the CO personally and that is why is Bro in law told me.

    so whatever that means.........

    Whatever that means, wallsofjericho, is that the "dividing work" is a pointless Sisyphean task. If what that CO said is reflective of the JW belief system, then why waste time trying to draw strangers into debates and arguments over such an abstract element as faith? This is the problem that arises when you deal in absolutes. Absolutes such as the "With us or against us" mentality that really makes up the framework of a high-control group like the Jehovah's Witnesses.

  • leaving_quietly
    leaving_quietly

    As a JW, I would answer "No", or what sir82 said, "Jehovah is the judge."

    As a non-JW, I would answer "yes" for these reasons:

    First, everyone is ELIGIBLE for the benefits of Christ's ransom. Everyone. It's up to each person as to whether they will do what Christ says to do or not.

    That said, Paul refused to preach the way JWs preach. Romans 15:20,21: " In this way, indeed, I made it my aim not to declare the good news where the name of Christ had already been made known, so as not to build on another man’s foundation;  but just as it is written: “Those who received no report about him will see, and those who have not heard will understand."" So, this man in your hypothetical situation, should not even be approached by JWs since he is ALREADY a believer. So, JWs, in preaching where Christ has already been named, run the risk of subverting peoples' faith.

    Christ gave the command to "Go and make disciples." Of whom? Based on the context, of himself. JWs do NOT make disciples of Christ. That isn't their aim. They view themselves as rescuers. In one of this year's Circuit Assembly programs, they drive this point in and state it's their commission, based on Proverbs 24:11: "Rescue those who are being taken away to death, And hold back those staggering to the slaughter." So, JWs preaching some other doctrine could actually make THEM ineligible. Why? Because while they are preaching, they are not doing what Christ commanded, to make disciples of him and teach people to observe ALL HIS commandments. This, in my opinion, is disobedience. They are going beyond what Christ said to do, and, in fact, actually NOT doing what he DID say to do.

    As for "spirit and truth", it's hard to worship with "truth" if truth is constantly changing.

  • EndofMysteries
    EndofMysteries

    Mr. Falcon = I asked the same question to one of my hardcore/judgemental relatives and this was their answer,

    "It doesn't matter how good, how sincere, how much they help the poor, how much they believe in the bible, etc they are, if they aren't part of Jehovah's visible organization which the bible clearly says is through a faithful and discreet slave, then they will die at armageddon."

    Now when I myself was a JW, a few years before TTATT, I started to think about this and I couldn't agree and believe that they would be killed. Then one day I read a scripture about how everybody would get a fair judgement in Romans 2:14-16

    14 For whenever people of the nations that do not have law do by nature the things of the law, these people, although not having law, are a law to themselves. 15 They are the very ones who demonstrate the matter of the law to be written in their hearts, while their conscience is bearing witness with them and, between their own thoughts, they are being accused or even excused. 16 This will be in the day when God through Christ Jesus judges the secret things of mankind

    That above scripture shows those who don't know God's will, but who follow the command of love and their conscience, that is part of the 'secret things' that will be judged.

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