i was happy before i woke up (page 4)

flipper

LOSINGIT- Hang in there. You made the statement, " I'm still paying the consequences of failing at being a Witness. " No you're not. You are still paying the consequences for having BEEN a Jehovah's Witness under cult mind control from the WT Society. No need to feel guilt over exiting the Witnesses. All mind control cults like Jehovah's Witnesses use FEAR and GUILT to keep people like you and all of us ex-Witnesses feeling bad about ourselves. The WT Society tries to demoralize our own self esteem by guilting us for things we do not need to feel guilty about- like having been a Jehovah's Witness. I really recommend if you get a chance to look at Steve Hassan's website www.freedomofmind.com. There are really great books he has written dealing with mind control tactics of many different religions. It really helped me and I think reading his books will help you. We are here for you as a support too. Keep your chin up, you'll be alright

zophar

Flipper

itisme

I do not have doubts about the doctrine. - no serious doubts, at least.

For example:

- the year when Jerusalim was destroyed issue - some say according to history it should be a few years before of after - to tell you the truth I do not care if that profecy points to 1914, 1913 or 1915. (And am not saying I do not believe in 1914, I just did not dig deep into these calculations and into this research and I will not, because I am fed up with numbers - I am an accountant :) ). So no matter the year it started, it is very clear that Satan and his angels were thrown on the earth. I do not need to know the exact year and month.

- about the changes in the doctrine: the changes themselves show they admitt they do not know everything, and that they are imperfect humans. every time they change something they say it loud and clear.

I do not think we should expect from this organisation to be perfect, or from the governing body. It is afterall an organization made by imperfect humans, and they say it too, that the organization is not perfect, and nor them are perfect. It's not like anointed ones know Jehova's mind. Jehova reveals what he wants when he wants. He is perfect. But we are all, including the anointed ones and the GB, we are all imperfect human beings trying to guess what will come, what's the meaning of past events and hoping to survive ...

The "doubts" that I have are related to certain mindsets some JW's have:

For example, I think most JW's have this mindset that we should allow ourselves to be happy only in Paradise. Most chose things that would just assure their survival in this world, what is good for them (good like in mediocre, not like in really good), or what they imagine God wants them to do, but not what would make them really really happy. For example when they chose a job - they chose what is practical, not what they love ... or some start pioneering but are not made for this, and makes them unhappy ... this goes up to choosing with whom to get married, for some ...

I belive we should get rid of this idea that we shall be happy only in Paradise. I believe that God wants us to be happy here and now, too. And we can be happy here and now, respecting God's principles. And God Himself wants this, too. He is afterall the happy God.

And I am not sure that this mindset that some have is promoted in the publications. I think it is more an interpretation or a missunderstanding of some JW's. Especialy lately, I feel something has changed in the publications, like they promote more individuality and personal decision, and they point more towards the essence - love, kindness etc.

It is curious how people imediately notice change related to doctrine, but they do not notice change in mindset and in the advice about life that is given in the publications.

About the field ministry - It is the duty of the GB and the annointed ones to urge us all about the field ministry - as some publications admitt, this ministry was given to them, we are just helping them out. And my personal duty is to try to make myself happy. So I go in the field ministry as much as it makes me happy, and as much as I am joyfull about. I used to pioneer and I realised it was not for me and I was not happy during all of that time. (for some time of my pioneeing I was - in the beginning I guess). I also tried not going for a few months and I honestly missed it. So now I am doing as much as it makes me feel happy and joyfull about what I do. And it does feel good to tell people about this hope we have, I can not imagine life without knowing what I know about the purpose of God, about the reason why evil exists and bad things happen. Of course you want to tell others when you know these things. And what other religion teaches this?

As I said before, I know the organisation is not perfect, but it is the closest to the first century christianity as it is described in the Bible. What more do you want in an imperfect world? We will see a perfect organisation in the new world.

PS: Sorry for the possible spelling mistakes - my first language is not English, as you might have guessed ...

rebel8

Is it possible you are looking at the past with rose-colored glasses?

jgnat

You are a lovely free thinker, itisme. I have always wondered about Witnesses who absorb the idea that they are in an imperfect organization that perhaps Christians of other stripes (similarly imperfect) are your brothers?

a watcher

itisme

rebel8

Hi itsme.

every time they change something they say it loud and clear

Usually they just state the opposite of the previous teaching without saying, "We're changing something." Many examples here--look these up in publications to verify for yourself.

When did they say loud and clear that they changed these things, for example?

I've read publications from many decades, and I cannot remember one instance of the wts saying, "Hey, we changed our beliefs." Not once.

flipper

ITISME- If the governing body is imperfect and makes mistakes - then how can you trust that a " God " in heaven is directing them ? If " Jehovah " is revealing things to them to direct Jehovah's Witnesses in the proper direction - then how can you explain the governing body CHANGING scriptures like Matthew 24 : 34 where Jesus says , " Truly I say to you that this GENERATION will by no means pass away until all these things occur. " With how the WT Society teaches this scripture in your publications now it should read, " Truly I say to you that THESE 2 OVERLAPPING GENERATIONS will by no means pass away until all these things occur. " So you and all other 8 million Jehovah's Witnesses are victims of WT leaders manipulation here.

Also- It's a law in the United States at least for clergymen or church leaders to report felony child abuse to police authorities as soon as they are made aware of children being sexually abused within congregations. Are you aware of the WT Society's policy in reporting child abuse among Jehovah's Witnesses ? Are you aware of what the elders are instructed to do ? They are instructed to FIRST report child abuse cases to the WT legal department and then ONLY if the WT Society allows them to report it to police are they to do it only with WT legal approval. Is that just and fair to child abuse victims ? I think not. WT Society is just doing it to prevent lawsuits from victims families so as not to cost them millions $$$$ ! They couldn't care less about JW child abuse victims. Please do some research on the Internet - you may find that you are supporting a criminal organization

sloppyjoe2

When it comes to JWs and the organization it is very simple. How can God destroy anyone who doesn't believe the organization is run by him? They have all of these dates IN PRINT 1914, 1915, 1925, 1975, generation of 1914 shall not die off that were wrong. The masthead in the awake stated it was the creators promise that the generation would not die. HOW can a loving God kill people for not believing this organization that changes all the time yet constantly reminds everyone that they are the sole channel of communication for him? The answer is simple, HE CAN'T! The all powerful, all knowing, all loving God could not fault anyone for seeing how obvious it is that these men just make stuff up as they go along.

Let's look at it another way. Who was right in the 1970s about the organization and its faults and 1975, apostates or the organization? Who said the organization was wrong? Apostates. Who were right in the end? Apostates. Who said in the 1980s the generation that saw 1914 was wrong? Apostates. Who printed in his book in the 1980s that it would have to be changed. The most well known considered Apostate Ray Franz. Who on this board since the early 2000s have been pointing out what is wrong with the organization? Apostates. Who have been right the whole time. Apostates. So that begs the question, why would Satan have all these correct answers and be giving them out? Why is God's channel always wrong?

flipper

SLOPPYJOE 2- Very good points you make , right on

i was happy before i woke up

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