Yeah, where are the statistics that family life is disintegrating? Divorce rates continue to drop.
Modern Morality .
by jhine 48 Replies latest jw friends
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prologos
If you were raised, as babies, toddlers, kids, teenagers by a 'traditional family' that is a great start. Go into the areas where the state has become the providing father to teenage mothers. where condoms are given out to kids in schools.
sex frees the men, but binds the women, it was said, leaves her holding the baby, (read the O'Bama story).
The unbridled pedophile situation* fits into the equation too, because some do not look so good in the mirror any more.
many species would go extinct if their traditional pattern of parenting (morals) would be broken.
The really smart humans including atheists look after their offspring well, and hope for the best.
are loose morals best?
* the exposure of sexual predetors and predation legislation is a plus for modern morals.
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LisaRose
I know you didn't intend for this to be about the Watchtower, but they are basically making the same claim as you, that the cause of divorce is today's looser morals. But the Jehovah's Witness are quite strict about sex outside of marriage, being one of very few religions that practice disfellowshiping, yet their divorce rate are no better than any other group, so it's hard to make a case that stricter morals will prevent divorce
If you look at divorce statistics, age at first marriage is a huge predictor of potential for divorce. A woman who gets married when she is less than twenty has a 27% chance of getting divorced, while a woman at age thirty has only a 8.5 percent chance. Anyone who has been a JW knows that often young people are in a hurry to get married because they are not allowed to have sex outside of marriage. They also discourage long courtships and dating without chaperones. These marriages often end in divorce because of immaturity and because the couple didn't have a chance to get to know each other better. Lack of pre marital counseling is also associated with a higher divorce rate. Education and higher incomes are associated with a lower divorce rate.
If you look historically, divorce used to be much less common, but was that necessarily a good thing? At one time women had a hard time supporting themselves, so leaving a marriage was not an option, it just wasn't economically possible. You might see that as being a good thing, but the reality is many women were physically and mentally abused and had no option to leave. Women still suffer abuse, but they have a lot more options these days, I see that as a good thing.
I agree with you that sexual promiscuity is not a good thing and is not liberating to women or men, but how do you propose to stop it? If being in a strict religion does not really prevent divorce, how do you propose we prevent sex outside of marriage as a secular society? Do you think we should go back to the sexual standards of fifty or a hundred years ago? It just isn't possible, nor is it really desirable in my opinion. The reality was there was a double standards, women were not allowed to explore their sexuality as much as men were, I don't see that as a good thing.
I think we need to do a better job at educating people about sex and personal responsibility. Unfortunately, many schools cannot really talk about sex, other than teaching abstinence. Abstinence programs just plain do not work, so that needs to be acknowledged. The fact is many children do know about sex from an early age it's all over the internet. Parents need to a acknowledge that their child is probably going to have sex at some point, so they had better prepare them to protect themselves from STDs and pregnancy. Most parents don't really address these issues, they naively think their child is different. This kind of thinking is part of the problem. Early marriages should be discouraged.
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PaintedToeNail
jhine-As the mother of elementary school aged daughters, I find it disturbing that clothing for them is very sexual. My tween girl is modest and doesn't feel comfortable wearing clothing that shows too much skin. Schools recognize the trend to put little girls into provocative clothing. Her school has banned mesh clothing, midriff baring shirts, skirts or shorts that are shorter than the end of the fingertips, tube tops, jeans or pants that allow the underwear to be shown, pants that fall below the buttocks, mesh tops.
Pediatricians are pushing the HPV vaccine at the age of 11 or 12. HPV causes most cervical cancers, it is a sexually transmitted disease. It is sad to think of 11 year olds having sex, but it does happen more than it should.
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Gustv Cintrn
Hi,
Modern morality=Amorality. These days all is permissible, anything goes. Lovely!
GC
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jgnat
Says who, Gustv? The modern morality is do not harm. Bullying is bad. Love people for who they are. Preserve and revere the earth and it's resources. Our next generation is highly moral.
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Apognophos
Don't rain on Gustv's self-righteousness parade. He's too attached to the illusion of superiority that comes with the religion he half-heartedly subscribes to.
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Phizzy
Morality well summed up jgnat !
I think the O.P is confusing sexual behaviour with Morality.
Sexual behaviour, like any other, should be governed by our personal Moral Compass, under the "Do the least harm" label. As with all behaviours, it is possible to fool ourselves that we are doing the least harm, but we also need to ask ourselves, before we do anything , "Is the action necessary".
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Mikado
i agree with jgnat, the next generation is very moral. I have great faith for the future.
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jhine
With regard to divorce rates stats are slightly different according to where you look . Stats however do not tell the whole story . People walk away from marriage but often do not divorce , I have three couples in my wider family (nieces and nephews ) who are no longer living with their wives or husbands- two have whom have not divorced . My nephew openly admits that it is because the lady that he lives with now would want to get married if he was free ! If stats are going to be quoted The Marriage Foundation which was set up by High Court Judge Sir Paul Coleridge states that
" Cohabiting couples who have children are more than twice as likely to split up as those who had tied the knot beforehand .Out of those who do not then go on to get married after having children, only a handful will still be together by the time the child is 16 . " And it predicts that half of the chidren born today will have been through a family break-up by the time they are 16 .
I did deliberately used the phrase stable family life . I am not trying to make this into a religious type debate just about marriage and so I was talking about children with two parents living together as a family , not necessarily married . I think that just looking around at your friends , family , neighbours we can all see that the amount of children living as a family unit with two parents in a stable relationship is now not very high.
The fact that many couples choose to cohabit rather than marry must also have a bearing on divorce statistics because obviously when they split no divorce is registered .
Phizzy I see your point but in the attitudes of today how many do think about "do no harm ". With freedom comes also responsibilty if society is going to run smoothly and the least amount of people get hurt . Again I imagine that you Phizzy like me are not exactly a spring chicken and you realise the importance of considering your actions in light of the impact on other people . As the do want you want attitude trickles down through the age groups I have to wonder if that will continue .
I see that as yet no one has answered my question about double standards in men's attitudes towards women and sex and I do worry that women are being objectified by pornography and other forms of sexual expression . With younger and younger people having access to porn especially how are the young people of tomorrow going to see relationships .
Jgnat I do not know how to stop promiscuity I just wanted to get some debate going to consider if the free attitude toward sex of todays society is really so good . No one wants to have laws regulating sexual behaviour but if there are no universally held boundaries is it a better place to be ?
Jan