ALIENS!! (and the downfall of religion) (page 2)

Apognophos

If the earth were to be visited by real extraterrestrials from a galaxy far, far away, then one would reasonably expect that the bible, and "God" in "his" "sovereignty" and "foreknowledge", to mention such a momentous occasion.

If aliens do show up, you can bet your bippy that suddenly people will find scriptures that foretold this would happen. I bet you could find a couple candidates yourself by flipping around the Bible.

The Bible indicates that the whole creation groans and travails under the weight of sin (Romans 8:18–22). The effect of the "curse" following Adam’s "fall" was universal. Otherwise what would be the point of god destroying this whole creation to make way for a new heavens and earth, (2 Peter 3:13), (Revelation 21:1)

Therefore, any ETs living elsewhere would have been affected by the Adamic "curse" through no fault of their own, they would not have inherited Adam’s sin nature.

You answered your own objection here. People always bring up the issue of atonement but it has nothing to do with aliens. If aliens didn't sin, then they don't need a savior. If they did also sin, then they can also be redeemed by (alien) Jesus. Why would this not be a tenable explanation by religionists?

However, Christ died once for all (Romans 6:10, 1 Peter 3:18) on the earth. He is not going to be crucified and resurrected again on other planets (Hebrews 9:26).

All the scriptures that pertain to this subject can be interpreted to refer to this planet only, the same way that the Society constantly explains how scriptures were written to be understood from man's perspective. There's nothing in there about aliens because man doesn't need to know that. So the statement about Jesus dying 'once for all' is in reference to humankind; he is never going to sacrifice himself again, so everybody aboard, this is your one chance.

Additionally, you rule out the possibility that, after seeing various alien races created and loyally serving God, Satan chose to make his move on the newly-created earthlings, and so Earth is where he makes his stand and falls, thus settling the issue once and for all. He didn't tempt any other races successfully, so they will never sin and will not ever need a redeemer.

See? I fixed all the problems. Also, when people say stuff like "Religion will fall if aliens call", their Western bias always shines through. What does Buddhism care about aliens? Shintoism? Hinduism?

TruthHub

MadGiant, I do see your points, and they are not without reason. I am not going to say I am right, they are only my ideas and I can very easily be wrong, but I am a person that considers the bible to be a very condensed version of the real story, it omits almost everything just giving the bear basics necessary. I believe that the most interesting things in the bible are the things it doesn't say. I believe that there is great truth in the colective knowlage of mankind, you just have to put the pieces together.

The Bible indicates that the whole creation groans and travails under the weight of sin (Romans 8:18–22). The effect of the "curse" following Adam’s "fall" was universal

The Bible does say that, but it is most probable that the "creation" it makes reference to is limited to the vecinity of the earth, if not the loyal angels would also be under the weight of sin since they are also part of creation...

And talking about Christ, consider this, what if he really died for a much greater cause? Theres a basic force in nature, some call it Ying and Yang, some call it Karma, but is basically balance and its vital for the existence of everything. The universe is in reality a great big soup of mathematical equations balancing eachother out. Every event creates an equation and another equation pops up to balance it out, these equations can manifest themselves in any form or event and normally happen automatically. But, the event of the rebelion and sin of Adam created an equation that could not be balanced out naturally and another event had to be engineered to create the equation necessary to bring back balance, if not the mathematical unbalance created by the events in Eden would have eventually ended with the collapse of all reality and the destruction of the universe. So Christ would have died for a much higher cause than we can understand...

The fact that there may be much older and wiser civilization swinging around the universe doesn't really make a difference... either that or I'm a complete nutcase, which is also very possible..

redvip2000

I really do think that there are other worlds with life. It's reasonable to think that amongst the trillions of planets in the universe perhaps at least a few thousands are at the right distance from their Sun, and have developed similar conditions to sustain and develop life. I don't think that they we will ever get visited by anybody though.

I also think that before life developd on earth, many others worlds have gone through a life cycle of sustaining life; from development of life, all the way through extinction due to their Sun running out of fuel to burn - the same extinction we will go through once our Sun runs out of fuel to burn.

disposable hero of hypocrisy

I think keyser soze hit the nail on the head with his simple statement. . Thanks keyser!

We're taught to accept scientists when they agree with whatever spin is put on some scripture or other, but ignore them as clearly part of Satan's world when they say ANYTHING contradictory to the bible. They'd simply be dismissed as being mistaken / lying.

Which makes me want to start another thread..........

Oogie

Its demonzzzzz....

MadGiant

"If aliens do show up, you can bet your bippy that suddenly people will find scriptures that foretold this would happen. I bet you could find a couple candidates yourself by flipping around the Bible." -
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"All the scriptures that pertain to this subject can be interpreted to refer to this planet only, the same way that the Society constantly explains how scriptures were written to be understood from man's perspective. " -
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Are you telling me that everyone has a different interpretation of the Bible?
That many people arrive at varying conclusions when reading the same book?
Should a book like that should be used and trusted?

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“Every sect is a certificate that God has not plainly revealed his will to man. To each reader the Bible conveys a different meaning.” - Robert G. Ingersoll (1833 – 1899)

Ismael

Apognophos

You're asking the wrong guy. I'm just taking the stance of a religious person to point out that aliens aren't really an issue for true believers.

MadGiant

"I'm just taking the stance of a religious person to point out that aliens aren't really an issue for true believers." -

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And I did the exact same thing, and used the exact same book to say that god didn't create life on other planets.

Crazy, isn't it?

Ismael

Apognophos

Yes, it is. But I think the key point is that people who don't want to have their faith shaken will be able to rationalize the existence of aliens using the thoughts I gave above. You see, I already worked this all out for myself when I was a believer, in case aliens showed up :0)

There's more I didn't mention, though these thoughts are more likely to be used by non-JW Christians -- if it's basically just alien peat moss that's discovered, then maybe all it means is that God is setting up that planet to be settled by us. If it's actual ETs, then maybe that's going to be our new ministry! Interplanetary missionaries will be sent to tell the aliens about the saving power of Jesus. Perhaps they'll be received with the same bemusement and opportunism as the "godless" Japanese received missionaries, as they came in on those very nice trading ships....

However, I don't think that ministry will be very effective if it turns out that the aliens don't have someone in their history who can be made out to be Jesus, and Adam/Eve. And of course it will generally be awkward for religionists if the aliens have no concept of God whatsoever and find it laughable. But they'll just shake their heads in pity for the godless aliens. They already believe that all the Muslims etc. are going to be judged unworthy, so what's a bunch of even more alien people going to matter to them?

In fact, as I think about it, the JWs will have a harder time reconciling the existence of ETs than almost any other group. That's because, as an end-times sect, they will have a hard time accepting that the sanctity of our planet's bubble can be pierced by aliens who want to say hi, before God has brought about Armageddon.

jws

When I was a JW kid, I remember my JW parents telling me that we just don't know. That God could have created life on other worlds too. Nothing says he didn't.

Microbial life forms probably wouldn't shake anybody's faith. Or at least they can rationalize it as my JW parents did.

Now if a highly intelligent life form lands and says "Jehovah? Jesus? Who? Never heard of them". That's probably going to cause many to think.

And then again, they can just say they're really demons portraying aliens as a hoax to mislead people.

ALIENS!! (and the downfall of religion)

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