Second death-what does it REALLY mean?

by FRUSR8TD 37 Replies latest watchtower bible

Bleep

One correction. Jehovah was the one who said" be my witnesses. Thats why the name JW came about.
Farkel

: Second death-what does it REALLY mean?
It means God doesn't believe in the US Constitution. Among civilized people, double-jeapardy is barbaric.
Farkel
Double Edge

Bleep....
You have Soooooooooo much to learn. Stay tuned with this board and get more than a "one-sided" education. I've got to take off now, but I'll leave you with this one thought. Think of ALL the 'priviledges' the 144,000 are suppose to have in God's Kingdom...guess what, they're reserved for YOU and me and more than a mere 144,000. What you have been taught is bogus and can be scripturally proven. Catch you later (if you have the courage to stay and the intelligence to hear more than just one side of interpretation).
LittleToe

Bleep:
You said: "Jehovah was the one who said" be my witnesses". Thats why the name JW came about.
Funny that the Israelites didn't listen to Isaiah and change their name to JW's. Seems they were perfectly content with the name "Israelites".
Funny that the Christians didn't either, but rather took the name "Christian", by providence (Acts 11:26).
Maybe the name actually came about because of the "greater Isaiah", Judge Rutherford. Or was he wearing his "greater Antioch" hat, when he thought that one up?
Good old Rutherford. He was such a kidder, huh?
That having been said, I really hope you will hang around and learn something.
Bleep

Before the earth was created he made some spirit creatures. Oh and then he made man. Man wanted a woman. Now we seem to have an order of things going on here. God > Jesus > other spirits > man > woman > child > animals. Each one must obey God first before all others. If say a man decides not to obey God; then the woman being the wife and also the child can break free.
Anyway where I am getting at is why would they all want to be higher up and be spirits? They would all be at that same level. Here we have all these spirits in your line of reasoning and no one on earth. Do you think we have this earth just to judge people on where to go next? We were meant to live here. So many angels have wanted what mankind has. I hope i am bringing something to this christian chat. If i have so much to learn then why cant i get a couple scriptures here? Better is the man not to have been born. That means if you have known the truth and you give it away and go along with your own line of reasoning. It would of been better if you were never born. There is a reason why the road to everlasting life is narrow.
Double Edge

Bleep:
So many angels have wanted what mankind has
How do you know that? Seems like the following scripture would indicate that angels are above mere mortals...why would they want what mankind has?
Hebrews 2
6 But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man that thou visitest him?
7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:
And what's up with "man wanted a woman"...don't you think that was God's plan all along, or do you think Adam just had a hankering. Noooo, God made man and woman partners, co-equals.
If say a man decides not to obey God; then the woman being the wife and also the child can break free.
Break free of what? You think if a husband disobey's God, suddenly his wife and child has lost their link to God...how unfair and ridiculous.
Anyway where I am getting at is why would they all want to be higher up and be spirits?
Of course that is your interpretation...that we don't have spirits. The following scriptures indicate otherwise:
Job 32:8
But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.
Ecclesiastes 12
7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Ecclesiastes 3:21
Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?
4horsemen

The 'second' death is oblivion.
According to WTS one of Jehovah's foremost qualities after "love" is justice. You sin for 80 years, die, and suffer for eternity? Makes sense to me. Does that seem "just" to you? If so, bring on the cheeseburgers, women, and beer!
Couple of other points.
The "slave" position. Couldn't it be said that we're a slave to: food, water, air? It's all a matter of perspective. So long as you have an unbeatable poker hand you can do what you want. So too with God.
Jesus words regarding Judas better off having never been born. Semantics. If Judas had not been born, he would not have known the difference. A better question is: Did Judas have a choice given that it was prophecy that someone would betray Jesus? Also, what will happen to the Bible in the so called New Order? Will it be obselete, parts omitted? In a sense, Judas' name will live forever even though he is dead. Either way hardly makes any difference to him.
For a Thrill Kill Cult Club like the JW's who profess reverance and appreciation for life, they seem to have an awful fixation on Death.
Interesting.
"I looked and there before me was a pale horse. Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him." Rev 6:8
Farkel

bleep,
: Now we seem to have an order of things going on here. God > Jesus > other spirits > man > woman > child > animals.
Uh, the order is that animals came before man, woman, child. So the order of creation is not in line with the order of creature "importance."
: Each one must obey God first before all others.
What happens if a hedgehog disobeys God's orders, then? Does it go to "hedgehog Gehenna?"
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!
Farkel
Jewel

>>>>Before the earth was created he made some spirit creatures. Oh and then he made man. Man wanted a woman. Now we seem to have an order of things going on here. God > Jesus > other spirits > man > woman > child > animals. Each one must obey God first before all others.<<<<
Actually, the order of creation according to the Bible goes like this:
God (where did HE come from? That's probably a question for another post)
Jesus
Other Spirits
earth
light and dark/Day and Night (though where the light's coming from I'm not clear because we aren't going to get to the sun for a little while yet...)
aptmosphere (the "expanse")
seas/dry land
vegetation
sun/moon (so the sun was created AFTER the earth???? and AFTER the earth was swarming with vegetation???? what about the whole photosynthesis thing???)
water creatures/flying creatures
land creatures
man
woman
Now if you are saying that spiritual superiority is linked to order of creation, then we-male and female alike-are WAAAYYY below pond scum, sea slugs, and earthworms.
>>>>If say a man decides not to obey God; then the woman being the wife and also the child can break free<<<<
I think the Freudian slip here is the "break free" part.
As I recall, the WTBTS said (used to, anyway) that the second death was the death that happened after the Great Tribulation. If any of the resurrected dead or any of the survivors didn't toe the mark, they would suffer the second death which was a two-strikes-and-you're-out-forever oblivion
edited because I couldn't spell "earthworms"
Adonai438

OK Bleep,
I haven't had the pleasure to chat with you yet but their are quite a few assuptions in your statements.
Firstly, The statement of why would we want to be spirits--
It's not that way. We all have Body, Soul and Spirit-- All of us and the three are separate parts of our being as the scriptures state. If they were not separate then they could not be divided like scripture says they can be. We don't 'become' spirit- we have all 3 parts and when we die the Body Dies and the rest ggoes to its destiny- God or Hell.
Secondly, no where in the Bible does it say that angels desire our human, earthly experience. That would be irreverant-- Irreverance would mean that that angel was not holy, thus one of satans followers.
The Bible does say that Satan wanted to be like God, that was the angelic sin, not desiring to be human. I am well aware of the 'nephilum' teaching of the jws but if you actually read the passage that mentions the nephilum you will see they are not angels.
It says that the nehpilum were on the earth at the time the sons of God desired the daughters of Men. Even if you incorrectly interpret the sons of god to be angels the passage makes clear that the nephilum are separate from the sons of god- they are not the same thing as jws teach. If you need the passage reference I will get it but my reply here must be quick for the moment
As for Jehovah calling for us to be his witnesses, conceptually this is true but not neccessarily in plain scripture.
The Scripture in Isa.43:10 is speaking to the israelites in a specific situation to be a literal witness for Yahweh/Jehovah.
And if you would like to be quite true to the very scripture where the jws name is derived then why don't you believe the second half of it?
'Before me no God was formed nor will there be one after me' it says but jws teach that JEsus, 'a god', was formed after Yahweh the Father.
Acts 1:8 Jesus specificly calls the christians to be his witnesses though.
There is so much more that I'd like to discuss with you but I don't have the time at the moment. I apologize if it sounds harsh in any way. Please take into account Yahweh, If you truly care about God and knowing the truth then please feel free to talk with me and I will make the time to answer or respond.
I have pasted in the stuff that I emailed to the author of this thread-- I hadn't wanted to be longwinded here but I think Bleep needs to really consider the scriptures on this so here are just a few of the many things the Bible says about people and the afterlife:
(Sorry in advance for it being long- skip it if you want )
& Bleep please feel free to email me personally:
DEATH & AFTERLIFE
People are made up of three parts (a picture of God’s being- we are made in his image)
Body, Soul, & Spirit. (1st Thess.5:23)
The body is separate from the soul- ‘soul’ is used to denote the whole person but is also a separate part of a person.--Body and soul can be separated and are both perishable- can die: (Matt.10:28)
The Spirit is separate from the soul and can be divided (Heb4:12)
The soul leaves at death (1 Kings 17:21-22)
The spirit leaves at death (Luke 23:46 & Acts 7:59)
The Righteous upon death go to be with the Lord (their soul & spirit)(2 Cor.5:1-10, Phil.1:21-24, Lk 23:43)
The wicked at death go to Hades commonly translated Hell. This is the physical grave and an agonizing spiritual separation from God awaiting their judgement. Portrayed in Luke 16 with Lazarus and the rich man. Some say this is only a parable but this is very unlikely since Jesus never suggested it was a parable as he usually explained them after he was done and he never used any peoples names in his parables. Even if it is a parable, Jesus would be illustrating a truth about hell.

Dead wicked conscious in hell in a few more places is also in Isa. 14:9-11 and 1 Peter 3:19-22
Just a few of the other of the verses supporting life after death:
*God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob ->
God is a God of the living not the dead
Mt.22:32, Mk. 12:26-27, Lk. 20:37-38
John 11:25-26 "Jesus said to her: "I am the resurrection and the life. He that exercises faith in me, even though he dies, will come to life; and everyone that is living and exercises faith in me will never die at all."
- Jesus said that those who live and exercise faith in Him will never die at all. (see also John 8:51) Since thousands upon thousands of believing Christians have physically died, they must somehow still be alive. Therefore, there must be a part of man that lives on after death.
Souls under the alter in heaven Rev. 6:9-11
Heb. 12:23-25 mentions spirits of the Righteous men made perfect. Made is past tense- not speaking of a future perfect re-creation.
Heb.11:4 says by faith Abel still speaks even though he is dead.
HELL
Three words that are translated ‘Hell’--
Tartarous is used only once in 2 Peter 2:4 to describe the place God had prepared for devil and his angels- this may also be what is called the abyss where Satan will be bound for the 1000 year reign of Christ.
Hades/Sheol is used for the physical grave and the spiritual hell the wicked will suffer in until their judgment at the end of time. This is conscious as discussed above. Again pictured in Luke 16. Also notice 1 Peter 3:18-19- Spirits in prison.
Gehenna is used of Hell, The Lake of Fire, where Satan, his demons, and all wicked people will spend eternity after their judgment at the end of time.
Rev.20:15-wicked people, Rev.20:10-Satan, Rev. 19:20-Beast & False Prophet.
Gehenna too is conscious. The wicked that are cast into it after judgement are NOT merely annihilated or cease to exist. For example: Rev. 19:20 is where the Beast and the False Prophet are ‘thrown’ . After this is the millennial kingdom-- 1000 year reign of Christ on Earth(Rev.20:4-6). At the end of the 1000 years Satan is free for a short time to deceive who he will to fight against God (Rev.20:7-8). God consumes the people following Satan with fire(Rev.20:9) and casts Satan into the Lake of Fire(Rev20:10). But read Rev. 20:10 closely-- When Satan is thrown in he is with the beast and they False Prophet and they will be together tormented day and night forever and ever. The Beast and False Prophet were thrown in 1000 years before Satan but are clearly still there! This is the same Lake of Fire as the wicked are destined to so why would it not also be eternal punishment for them too? The answer is, it is eternal.
God does not want people to go to hell but this is the result of rejecting him. 2 Peter 3:9,Heb.9:27, Matt.25:46
<><Angie

Second death-what does it REALLY mean?

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