by lambsbottom 31 Replies latest watchtower bible
So I have made contact with the Bible Students (Russell's followers). Nice people. Teachings seem a lot more reasonable than JWs.
Do they believe that people like me that don't believe there is sufficient evidence to believe in a god, deserves to burn in hell forever or be put to death lovingly by the god they chose to worship?
All for Show says ... I have lived in fear my whole life and hated we lived in the 'last days' where meeting and service meant our salvation.
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This fear you speak of was intensionally orchestrated by men such as J Rutherford and ones to follow with the deliberate intension to proliferate the WTS. published goods.
Exploiting the already established belief in the bible to support that particular endeavor.
Rutherford also used 1914 as a starting point of this so called time of the end propaganda, which by Scripture creating any specific date or year is against
Jesus own words of direction.
If Jesus had truly chosen the WTS. as his earthly mouth piece for all mankind (1919) why are all the books and literature that Rutherford wrote are out
of print and banned from JWS or the public from reading ????
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The WTS. is solely run and operated by corrupt opportunistic men who had the audacity to self proclaim themselves the chosen ones in promoting their literature and self
imposing themselves with assuming power and control. Thats why when you are baptized in this religion, you have to acknowledge loyalty to these men (GB)
directors of the Watchtower Corporation Publishing house.
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The WTS. is nothing more than an exercise in Americanized religious charlatanism and its coerced indoctrinated devoted followers are its self devised sales representatives
and exploited supporters for this organization. The truth speaks for itself.
Punkofnice, many that don't believe in God have every right not to if they judge from what a band of people called organized religion says.
Jesus is a ranson for ALL. Everyone sinning does so because of Adam and Adam's sin is ransomed. ALL who dies die in Adam, all that dies Adamic sin gets resurrected because they are ransomed not because they paid for their sins as noone can ransom themselves. Being an atheist is to me not as bad as being a pedophile or a huge liar like the governingbody. One sin is no greater than the other sin is sin. Some is more repulsive but it is still sin.
I have alerted Br. Peter an elder with the Bible Students, all of their grandparents and some of the 90 year old's parents were disfellowshipped or left. I sit with some 102 and in 90's that remember when Rutherford took over. My dad fought him on the blood issue and was DF'd. Br. Russell at least admitted he was wrong about 1914 being the end of all things. It will shock you to see 98% of what was taught from Bible Student is entirely different.
They make sense. They will allow difference on scriptures from different angles.
Br. Peter will sign up to talk to you here. He is the most loving brother you will meet. He is admin for the friends site.
This site however is a better site to answer your questions on as all of us check to get our updates on this site. Other sites come here also. I am babysitting 4 young grands in a JW household this week. The nanny is a witness but does not know I am not. My son and daughter in law would die if she knew. So that is why you see I am not on right away. This is fall break for grands.
There is no burning hell of course and only after all know what Jehovah's will is after millennium will second death be used by Jehovah. Right now we are witnesses of Jesus and the REAl Jews are the Jehovah witnesses as always. On the site the scriptures and support is there.
I will also alert Br. Parkinson and others to sign up for this site.
Administration the Bible Student elders registered this morning but need you to confirm. Thank you (he just texted me.)
I will let Peter answer the Rev. 19 chapter when he gets approval from admin to comment here.
Since leaving for good it is hard for me to even fathom how someone can say/type the words 144,000 with a straight face. Once one wakes up and really takes questioning to the proper extent I do not see how you can look at any organization that bases its beliefs on the bible and come away with a positive view of them.
Technically the bible students have been wrong even longer than the jdubs and in another 100 years they will still have been wrong longer still. If you need the church i guess you need the church but for allah's sake its like nails on a chalkboard hearing about 144000, 1000 year rule, birds picking eyes out and sinners.
pbrow
Lambsbottom, punkofnice and others, I am Peter K from the Friends of Jehovah’s Witnesses website. PTT7000 is letting me borrow her user ID while I wait for approval from the Administration of this website.
Lambsbottom – You asked, “Can you direct me towards information Revelation 19 being figurative? It speaks of the birds gorging themselves on the flesh…”
A great problem with Revelation interpretation is that so many supposed experts interpret passages LITERALLY, for example as in Revelation 19:17-18 where the birds of heaven devour flesh. We know the four beasts of Daniel are symbolic of four world empires, right? Daniel 7:23 says that “"The fourth beast will be a fourth kingdom on the earth… and will devour the whole earth…” We don’t believe that a literal beast will devour the whole earth do we? So why do people have a problem recognizing that the birds are symbolic? (I believe of the Christian people who will finally turn on Babylon system when the truth is corrupt system is revealed.) You can find more on the FJW website, in the right column under “Books-electronic.” There are two revelation books there. In the first book, “Revelation explained” start with page 237. In the second book, “Revelation Research Foundation,” start at the bottom of page 474. Hope this helps.
Punkofnice – You asked, “Do they believe that people like me that don't believe there is sufficient evidence to believe in a god, deserves to burn in hell forever or be put to death lovingly by the god they chose to worship?”
No Punkofnice – I believe you will be resurrected on earth with the opportunity for perfect human life. The following scriptures support the view that unbelievers will have a future opportunity after they are awakened from the dead.
1 John 2:2 – “He is an atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. – Weymouth
1 Tim 4:10 – God…is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe. NKJV
Rev 22:17 – “the bride say, “Come!”… Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely. NKJV [An invitation to unbelieving mankind on Paradise Earth.]
Rom 8:19,21 – “the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God… also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God NKJV
1 Peter 2:12 – “Gentiles… they may, by your good works… glorify God in the day of visitation.” NKJV
Now, Punkofnice, once you are resurrected from the dead and enjoying the blessings of the earthly kingdom, will that be sufficient evidence to prove to you that the God of the Bible exists and is in charge? If so, I think your would be heading the the right directions to progress on to the opportunity of everlasting life.
This thread is getting really good. I cannot believe that the JWs dont know what Russell really taught!
lambsbottom, one of the first things I learned was about what armageddon really was. The picture in the 1959 Paradise lost to Paradise regained showed a child riding their bike into a hole in the ground and building falling on people. Then they said we would have to literally bury bones for seven years. I wondered why tear down buildings when the resurrected would need homes and there would only be a few of us. Now to know many will survive that war including our neighbors. (And of course the French never fight. lol) 0ver 200 of my relatives are afraid to leave because of children and grands might die. These men are masters at what they do, and so is satan.
I am Peter K from the Friends of Jehovah’s Witnesses website again. PTT7000 is letting me borrow her user ID while I wait for approval from the Administration of this website.
I think Armageddon is an interesting topic to discuss. In the days of Brother Russell, The Early Watchtower Bible Students often pointed out how the Catholic Church would use the fear tactic of hell fire to keep their members loyal to the church. Never did they expect, that the Watchtower Organization would make a 180 degree turn and use Armageddon as a fear tactic to keep it's members loyal.
1Jo 4:18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love throws fear outside, because fear exercises a restraint. Indeed, he that is under fear has not been made perfect in love. – NWT
2 Tim 1:7 (Amplified Bible) - For God did not give us a spirit of timidity (of cowardice, of craven and cringing and fawning fear), but He has given us a spirit of power and of love and of calm {and} well–balanced mind {and} discipline {and} self–control.
If 1 John 4:8 says “God is love,” then shouldn’t love, not fear, be our motivation to serve Jehovah?
This year (2014) the Jehovah’s Witnesses Organization published a new book, “God’s Kingdom Rules,” which will be studied by JWs around the world starting in early 2015.
Page 227, par 12 – “An all-out attack. Gog of Magog will attack the remaining anointed ones and their other sheep companions. (Read Ezekiel 38:2, 11.) This attack against established Kingdom rule will be Satan’s last battle in a war that he has been waging aginst the anointed remnant since his expulsion from heaven. (Rev 12:7-9, 17)”
The book applies the Ezekiel 38 battle as against the spiritual Israel of the Jehovah’s Witnesses, as the kingdom is being established. The book indicates that in a final attempt to overthrow God’s kingdom, Satan will send armies against the remaining Anointed and the Great Crowd of Jehovah’s witnesses and deliver them.
A major problem here is that the narrative continues into Ezekiel 39, where in verse 23 (NASB) we read, “the nations will know that the house of Israel went into exile for their iniquity because they acted treacherously against Me…” When Did Jehovah send the JWs into exile for their iniquity and treachery?
Also notice in Ezekiel 38 (NASB) that in verse 8, that Satan’s armies come against “the land that is restored from the sword, whose inhabitants have been gathered from many nations to the mountains of Israel which had been a continual waste; but it’s people were brought out from the nations, and they are living securely, all of them.”
In what sense will the Jehovah’s Witnesses be in a land restored from the sword? If the “mountains of Israel” apply to the Jehovah’s Witnesses and the kingdom, in what sense had it been “a continual waste?”
If the “mountains of Israel” apply to the Jehovah’s Witnesses and the kingdom, in what sense had it been “a continual waste?”
In every sense, waste of time, waste of paper, waste of life.
