Theredeemer, those are excellent questions. And it is better to have some of the questions than all of the answers. Calling God a liar because he told man what was appropriate for our level of knowledge in Moses' time is no different than us getting called liars for telling our kids about Santa Claus. What an arrogant judgment! Some kids hold on to the belief in Santa Claus even for a little while after their parents tell them there is no Santa Claus.
Pope says Big bang and Evolution are correct !
by Phizzy 36 Replies latest watchtower bible
-
-
OneEyedJoe
Vidiot - you're right, there's no way they could change the stance on evolution without a major overhaul in doctrine. They could probably do it, but they'd definitely lose a few donating members in the process.
I remember a while back I hear a public talk about evolution. The entire thing was basically just an appeal to consequence - If you believe in evolution, then you can't possibly believe in christianity, therefore evolution is false. At the time I wasn't awake to TTATT, but I had sorta figured that evolution must be true (and everything the WTS printed on the topic was riddled with holes). The brother giving the talk was by far the most intelligent one in the congregation, so I got rather excited - part of me hoped he'd finally point to some irrefutable evidence contradicting evolution and I'd be able to shed the lingering doubts that I'd had for years. Needless to say things worked out a little differently.
Sure, creation and evolution aren't mutually exclusive, but it seems to me that the JWs have one thing right in that christianity without adam and eve essentially just becomes a nice feeling because your imaginary friend loves you and tells you there's life after death.
That said, I do like the current pope. The way things are going he'll soon be advocating for condoms and doggie-style.
-
sparky1
The Big Bang theory is nothing new to the Catholic Church.
-
Vidiot
OneEyedJoe - "You're right, there's no way they could change the stance on evolution without a major overhaul in doctrine."
I'd come to the same conclusion; huge swaths of WT theology would have to be rewritten practically from scratch.
OneEyedJoe - "They could probably do it, but they'd definitely lose a few donating members in the process."
Oh, I think they'd lose more than just a few.
Personally, I doubt the WTS would even survive the effort.
OneEyedJoe - "I do like the current pope. The way things are going he'll soon be advocating for condoms and doggie-style."
'Specially if he's gay.
-
Theredeemer
Personally I would never tell my kid that santa is real.
So are they saying that evolution is guided by God or is it still natural selection?
If evolution is real then could you say that we are perfect since evolution is perfect being that God started it all?
Why punish us for our inate evolutionary desires?
If evolution is real then doesnt that mean we are meant to die?
If Jesus died so we can now go to heaven, doesnt that mean God is intervening with evolution which he allowed to progress to the state that we die?
If God never meant for us to die then does that mean he has no control of evolution thus making him not all powerful and in control?
If he is in control and this is the course that evolution took us in then is he evil for allowing us to suffer for his personal amusment?
If evolution is real and god created the spark then can you just call all these trillions and trillions of years his experiment?
-
cofty
I would never insist that others should believe as I do or ever brow-beat them for disagreeing with me. I'll leave that to Cofty... - erbie
That's facile erbie.
Everbody is free to beleieve any delusional fantasy that suits them. If somebody had the intellectual honesty to declare they believe in creationism despite all the evidence, just because it makes them happy, that would be refreshing. What can't go unchallenged is when people pretend there is some sort of factual basis for their myths and superstitions.
All I and others can do is keep on presenting facts, evidence and reason. Myth and superstition, presented as truth, cannot be allowed to stand.
Well done to the pope for stating the obvious.
So how does original sin work then?
-
OneEyedJoe
All good questions theredeamer. I'd add: If evolution is real, in what sense could it be said that we were "made in god's image?" I don't know what typical christian doctrine is on this point but the JW assessment that we have essentially the same emotional traits (most notably, love) seems like a reasonable interpretation of this verse.
If evolution is true, we evolved from single-cellular life, which certainly could not be said to have been made in god's image. So, all traits that we possess that are a reflection of god would've come about through an unguided process.* What does that say about the one in whom's image we were supposedly made? That seems irreconcilable.
* if you want to assert that evolution was a guided process, you've got an uphill battle against all manner of things like male nipples, eyes that were origonally better suited for seeing underwater, the appendix, our broken vitamin C gene, etc, etc. There's too many "mistakes" in our makeup for it to be possible that our evolution was guided by some perfect, omniscient, omnibenevolent being.
-
Theredeemer
(after taking a hit) What if...like...evolution is God..and..like God is evolution man?....I want Cheetos puffs!
-
SonoftheTrinity
The Raelians seem to have it all reconciled. Jehovah is a spaceman and we were planted here by crossbreeding with early hominids. But the more I read about them they seem like the LBGT equivalent of the Nation of Islam. Not my scene.
Theredeemer, I think you would enjoy having some Rastafarians come to your house and do a Bible study. I should move to Washington or Colorado and start my own door to door ministry.
-
Finkelstein
The WTS would never profess anything like the Pope just did, to do so would fracture the believability of who they are portraying to be.
Since they're proclaimed that Christendom is guided by Satan and isn't connected to god, pointing out the fallibility of other religious institutions is
done so to create a self supporting image of itself as the only true religion.
To side with science at this point in time would fracture their supposed connection with the almighty.