Interesting Religious Conversation with my Daughter... (page 4)

cofty

Many muslims are atheists - Ruby

Ridiculous! That is like saying many vegetarians eat beef.

others believe that Quranic verses like the one you mention, Quran 4:34, were written for a different time and place

The quran is authoritative for all times. Mo is THE example for all Muslims to admire and imitate. This is axiomatic.

What do you think of a man who instructs men to beat their wives and who repeatedly raped a 9 year old girl?

“Islamophobic is a word created by fascists, and used by cowards, to manipulate morons”

It is obvious you have not read Ayaan Hirsi Ali and yet you have opinions about her books.

Ruby456

Cofty, I do have opinions about Ayaan Hirsi's book but please don't think I have dismissed her views - I have not. She grew up in a very cruel world and that is very sad.

cofty

I do have opinions about Ayaan Hirsi's book - Ruby

Yes I know you do. I asked you whether you have personally read her books.

You said " when she applies her phobia to all islam she is writing fiction. "

Are you basing that on hearsay?

My opinions on Ayaan and her writings are based on peer reveiws. But my first port of call is wiki which tends to provide general details. Then (before buying as I am not that financially solvent) I tend to read peer reviewed articles about the person to get a feel for their angle and prejudices if they have any - and she has a lot.

But even now it would be foolish to dismiss her as people do mobilise prejudice when they feel all else has failed which then begs the question - what has failed? which part of her culture has failed her? and how much of what has failed is due to her own coping strategies and if so what steps has she taken to address that aspect. How much attention does she give to those who are advising her about Islam not being monolithic? And she has been advised about this. The last question is absolutely crucial for me because I'm certainly not going to spend money on someone who has been around a long time and has had opportunities that challenged her to think about what she is claiming and does not adjust her views. She could make very strong comments about how Islam needs to change and in what directions it needs to go once she has done so as she can speak from personal experience and then I would not hesitate at all to go out and buy her book.

cofty

My opinions on Ayaan and her writings are based on peer reveiws. But my first port of call is wiki which tends to provide general details. - Ruby

That is precisely the same as somebody dismissing all of the personal experience and knowledge here on JWN because JWs claim we don't know what we are talking about.

Ayaan Hirsi Ali knows all about the world of Islam. She understands the beliefs of both extremists and moderates. She has nothing left to learn about the teachings and culture of Islam. She knows it is not monolithic, she points this fact out in her books. Her testimony and insights are priceless.

She speaks up for millions of muslim women, both in muslim majority countries and in the west, who are oppressed by muslim teachings.

She is a hero.

You have dismissed her based on pathetic muslim apologists and cowardly commentators who are more concerned not to casue offense than they are about the lives of Islam's victims.

How do you find the audacity to comment on an author who has suffered as Hiris Ali has without even reading a single word of her brilliant books?

Ruby456

fair enough if she is a hero to you and others - I won't criticise her then.

edit: My interest is only piqued when what she expresses sounds suspiciously like what we hear on foxnews and cnn (although much less so on cnn). when this then feeds back into the democratic process souring it with loathing and fear and when this then influences foreign policy then no one wins. People need to speak out against such injustice.

cofty

I won't criticise her then. - Ruby

Feel free to criticise her, but base it on something you actually know she said because you read it for yourself in context.

If somebody is curious about what JWs believe they could read the official website.

If somebody really wants to know what JWs believe - the nuance behind the carefully chosen words - they have to talk to an ex-JW. Preferably a calm and reasonable one.

If somebody wants to know what life is really like growing up as a JW only a born-in ex-JW has the answer. The same is true with Islam.

Ruby456

perhaps you can apply your advice to yourself too (example your reply to me in post 14029) and while you are doing that please also remember that overall I am interested in garyneals ideas rather than yours and jwdaughter's rather than yours.

cofty

overall I am interested in garyneals ideas rather than yours and jwdaughter's rather than yours.

I too am very interested in JWDaughter's ideas.

I have asked three times why she joined a religion that gives men permission to beat their wives but she has declined to respond.

Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them . But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand. - Quran 4:34

Interesting Religious Conversation with my Daughter...

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