preface question:

by mohrb 47 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  OnTheWayOut

  But, what is this "can not be fixed" rubbish? You realize the foundation of the religion is based upon questioning man-made teachings. The system isn't broken, the people have just been too lazy and sheepish to do their duty and speak up in a constructive, upbuilding way.

  Watchtower is entirely man-made teachings. Can you tell us a single teaching that is totally unique to Watchtower that is correct? Many groups teach general morality based on the Bible or otherwise, but once I woke up to the fact that Watchtower is a dangerous mind-control cult, my personal examinations showed me that Watchtower is entirely wrong man-made teachings.

  Invisible presence, this generation and the last days, prophecies pointing to the printing corporation, 144000, mediator for just the anointed, 607 BCE and 1914 CE, even God's name being Jehovah. Where do we start to "speak up" and start to fix it?

  Easier to throw a useless fit on the internet than do something productive and help the congregation grow.

  How far can you go to help the congregation grow before you are cast out? Should the local congregation grow and break away from the organization? How's that going to work, or do you think your corrections can grow system wide?

  Example, the society warns about the dangers of the internets... and this site evolves out of protest, proving that exact point that seemed so unreasonable.

  It's like objecting to that little warning about kids drowning in buckets by drowning a kid in a bucket. By overreacting to their overreactions, you've completely justified their warning.

  What if their warnings are just a bunch of lies designed to keep the members ignorant and paranoid about "the world" so they will stay in the dangerous mind-control cult without questioning it? They have had the self-fulfilling prophecy that people "of Satan's world" will object to your studying with Witnesses precisely because people should object to your studying with Witnesses.

  So maybe they make it just SEEM that anything people do to try to correct things or speak out is disobedience and weakness and sin and it just SEEMS like more "drowning a kid in a bucket" type of actions.

  But hey, if you have a concern... feel welcome to tell us how you are going to "stick with taking rational steps about a reasonable complaint." Lead a new charge. Tell us how that works out and start your movement. When you lose all your friends and JW family and get kicked out, we'll be here for you.
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  OneEyedJoe

  Mohrb:

  Welcome to the site. Your posts reflect a lot of what I myself thought internally at one point. However, after a little research I realized that it was I who had been mislead and the JW religion is hopelessly broken, and always was. It's not an old car that just needs to be fixed up, it's a hunk of metal that never drove in the first place.

  That said, if you think you can defend the truth, I invite you to head on over to this thread and enlighten us all. I've always said I'd much rather lose an argument than win one, because I'd rather not spend any more time being wrong than necessary. If you think you can provide evidence that the JW religion is the way to go, I invite you to do so.
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  KateWild

  Welcome to both mohrb and alive.

  I am df'd, I was df'd unjustly and I am glad that both JWs and exJWs can chat together in a safe place.

  Kate xx
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  StarTrekAngel

  Ok guys.. lets not make him right on his assesment because the truth is that we are not what he suspects. Rather we invite you to engage the debate, which in our experience is not something a regular JW will be willing to do. We were once on that side. Such is the opossite extreme of what you think you see here. Just as much as it seems we prefer to rant here rather than attempt to make a change from within, the regular JW would rather seat quietly on their cocoon of faith, have their believes handed over rather than do some pottentially painful thinking. All of which is augmentated by the possibility of loosing everything they know if they dare to question. Have you not read the WT definition of "apostate"? I would invite you to. It affirms that an apostate if defined in several ways. Most would agree that an aposate is someone who has refused God and his commandements. Which is true. However, the WTBTS society has redefined apostasy. Asides from the above, they added that anyone who refrains from following the word of God "as thaught by the Jehovah's witnesses" (not God) Please seat on the meaning of that for a while. Also, anyone who even begins to think, without verbally communicating it to anyone else, against what he's been thaught. While this all certainly fits the dictionary definition of apostasy, one who truly longs for biblical truth should now that you can only be an apostate against God. By extension, if you can prove that this is Jehovah's organization, then you certainly can apostasize against it and sin in the process. Unfortunately the latter can not be said by their own admission.

  This is not a choice people made, it was made for them. We all were there once. I invite you to stick around and, like someone mentioned, shows us. Because we are eager to be wrong. Many here who have lost their families, wish they were wrong about going apostate.
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  StarTrekAngel

  Most of us were also thaught that the world outside the KH was evil. Many things are said about it and people feel compelled to continue to publish such ideas. My mother in law is one of many. I know she is not like this, she sincerely feels she is doing the right thing. My kids have been insisting on dressing up for halloween. She tried to talk them out of it. For other reasons, it did not happen but over the weekend, some news articles appear about some accidents related to halloween night. Some kids were killed by a drunk driver. She wasted no time on pointing out to my kids 'this is what happens to those who go out trick or threating". This does not come from her. This come from a constant banging on this dumb ideas and comparison that drive people to such extremes. I've been present in public talks where the speaker have said things like "its a deadly sin to miss a single meeting", while we are reminded that the talk was driven by the holy spirit. I would leave you with a quote to think about, it perfectly fits what happens inside the org

  The great enemy of truth is very often not the lie - deliberate, contrived, and dishonest - but the myth - persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic. Too often we hold fast to the clitches of our forebears. We subject all facts to a prefabricated set of interpretations. We enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought
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  MissFit

  Welcome Mohrb!

  Would you be comfortable telling us a little more about you?

  I can guess you are probably a male because a Sister could never get away with questioning a CO? Are you an Elder? A born in? Do you have a big family in the "Truth "?

  I ask because there are a lot of factors that determine how you are treated when you ask questions or make objections.

  I admire the fact that you can speak your mind so boldly.

  Maybe you are right, maybe more people need to step up. But before you prejudge or dismiss out of hand these members or this site, look around some.

  You might find out there are things you didnt know you didnt know.

  I was surprised. Dont take their word. Research, explore.

  Hang on tight, if you dare, you will be in for a heck of a ride.
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  leaving_quietly

  Mohrb, I am an active JW. I know a brother that has the same take as you, that more people should offer constructive criticism in the form of letters to the Society. I am not of that opinion. Why? Because letters have ALREADY been written ad nauseum about some of the doctrinal issues I have an issue with. Proof of that is that some of these have found they way into Questions From Readers. It just tells me that the Society does not really listen all that well to constructive criticism. And, since they have a bad habit of returning letters to the body of elders, it simply makes the whole process uninviting.

  I have personally come to the conclusion offered by Ecclesiastes 1:15: "What is crooked cannot be made straight and what is lacking cannot possibly be counted."
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  StarTrekAngel

  Well, yes, but... most letters that are published are those that already have an answer that they would like to drive home. That would not be honest. Why are the letters questioning the UN association not published? Why are there no apologies for the publications made regarding the pre-1975 enviroment? Is there a need for someone to point them out?

  I attended the international convention of 2014 in Houston (spanish). An example of a "doubter" was presented. A pioneer from Argentina was interviewed regarding the new light. it went something like this...

  Speaker - Here we have a brother that has seen Jehovah's hand in providing new light.. Brother, tell us about your questions.

  Brother - I have always had a pondering questions in my mind. How could it be possible that the 144.000 were part of the slave class and how could they possibly be of any help if they are so far from the GB. Well, the new light on the GB brings about the answer to this question. The GB IS the faithful and discrete slave. This makes much more sense now.

  Speaker - Thank you brother. Your example shows how Jehovah always answers our questions.

  True Story.

  I guess what we need to see is an example where a number of letters written to Brooklyn has brought about change and much more specially, were the organization has admitted that the input from the brothers was instrumental in bringing about change.
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  Alive!

  Another thought regarding working from within, writing constructively to Brooklyn etc.

  Do you remember the illustration showing the earthly organisational structure? The governing body were depicted sitting on executive pullman chairs, heads down, around a large boardroom table - NOT looking out towards the reader thus inviting mutual respect for a shared work....then elder bodies depicted sitting on basic office chairs around a simple desk and so on.....it depicted a heirarchy of diminishing corporate value, the furniture and chairs getting simpler and more basic the further they were removed from HQ - this didn't strongly portray a fellowship of workers for Christ, where none are lorded over (Christ wasn't even in the illustration) - so my question, in what way does that invite me or any other brother and sister to feel I can approach the GB freely as a fellow worker? The illustrations are not a last minute add on - they are well thought out and take time to execute...what message was bring delivered to myself and the worldwide congregations?

  Where in our literature is I stated that am I allowed to THINK?

  My conscience along with my emotional and mental health has really suffered as I've struggled to fight pains of guilt for not feeling "loyal" and for developing critical thinking to the point where I find the way we are dealt with as unforgivable.

  I could write a book on my experiences and observations...

  Thanks Doc and Phizzy for your comments.
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  StarTrekAngel

  Also, lets not forget the publications where it was written that "brothers who question the counsel of elders and the org are exercizing independent thinking, which equals pride"