The Mosaic Law (Is it still Valid)

by objectivetruth 30 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  objectivetruth

  I'm interested to know Of some of your view points o this.. Is the Mosaic Law Still Valid, and should it be followed. Or as many claim was it done away with?

  From my examination of Scripture, I feel that it is still Valid, and Christ did not Do away with it.

  Briefly here are the primary reasons I feel this way :

  1. Jesus said I have not come to destroy The Law. (Matt 5:17)

  2. Jesus said I have come to fulfill it. This was a common phrase in Judaism at the time, it ,want to Explain / Expound / Properly teach theough Example. This is What Jesus did.. He removed all portions of the Law that were later additions by Lieng Scribes (Jer 8:8), and he provided a Perfect Example, of how to Follow the Law as Yahweh has intended it to be followed.

  3. Jesus said " For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished." - Heaven and Earth do not pass away until after the 1,000 Year Reign (Revelation 21:21 " Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more.")

  4. All of Jesus Disciples and Apostles continued to Follow the Mosaic Law, after Christ. Peter even argued with Yahweh's Command when it interfered with The Dietary laws put forth in The Mosaic Law. (Acts 10:14 " But Peter said, “By no means, Lord; for I have never eaten anything that is common or unclean.”)

  5. Many Religions have developed the Teaching of The Law being abolished, based on the Writings Of Paul.. Peter warned of this danger.. ( 2 Peter 3:16 " as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures." - " You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability." The key word here is "lawless".

  6. Acts 21:20 " And when they heard it, they glorified God. And they said to him, “You see, brother, how many thousands there are among the Jews of those who have believed. They are all zealous for the law," - New Jewish Christians who believed in The Messiah were Zealous for the law.

  These are the scriptural reasons I feel that the Mosaic Law was not done away with.

  id like to hear some others thoughts.
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  humbled

  Wasn't every law lifted except fornication and eating un-bled meat?
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  sowhatnow

  jesus was under the law, so was paul, i believe, its still in force, yet Id say according to what i recall reading,

  you either have t o come under the law and do it perfectly

  or you remain a gentile who are not under the law.

  the big problem with how I view the bible now, [knowing that revelation is only about the destruction of the temle at jerusalem, which is done,[and all scripture was written after the fact anyway,]

  we can leave any revelation out of the formula. to me its figuring out IF ALL HAS BEEN ACCOMPLISHED, with that destruction of the temple.

  many jews did not acccept Jesus as a savior.

  there is good reason based on some written and other historical evidence from lots of researchers, to believe jesus was invented by the roman governement to quiet the religious battles that went on at the time. they needed a state religon to force people to obey, to stop the unrest

  .they chose christianity, and then those laws were forced on the populace. the reason behind this is the bible itself, many places tells people to obey the superior authorities, and is pro roman throighout making rome seem favorable to God.
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  objectivetruth

  Hi Humbled - This is an interesting scripture you bring up, it was directed towards Gentiles who were converting to Jewish Christianity -

  "And so my judgment is that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God." ( Acts 15:29 ) The Mosaic law in its entirety would be difficult to begin observing fully at once.

  If you examine All of Acts 15 you can understand the context better. Acts 15:5 " But some believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees rose up and said, “It is necessary to circumcise them and to order them to keep the law of Moses.” -

  Notice it says "the law of Moses"

  God Wrote down and Clmmanded certain laws " When the LORD finished speaking to Moses on Mount Sinai, he gave him the two tablets of the covenant law, the tablets of stone inscribed by the finger of God." (Exod 31:18)

  Moses write down some laws - " Moses then wrote down everything the LORD had said. He got up early the next morning and built an altar at the foot of the mountain and set up twelve stone pillars representing the twelve tribes of Israel." (Deut 31:9)

  The Old Testament contains a mixture of God's Laws and Mans laws that were later adder, in order to be an additional protection as to not violate God's Laws. Generation by Generation these Man Made laws became further and further away from God's true commands, and this is the reason Jesus had to "Fulfill" (Set straight and Seperate God's Law from mans)

  One example of this Law by Mosea (Or more properly his descendants) was animal Sacrifice, God never commanded or asked for Animal Sacrifice Jer 7:22 " For in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, I did not speak to your fathers or command them concerning burnt offerings and sacrifices."

  Notice during the Sermon Jesus did not say that we must follow the Law in order to gain salvation, however he did differentiate between those that do it and those that do not do it.. They are both in the Kingdom, but the one that does the Law is called great. (Matt 5:19)

  It seems possible that some were teaching that you had to follow the Law to be sved at all. (Acts 15:1 " "Unless you are circumcised as required by the law of Moses, you cannot be saved.") Galatians 3:21 "

  Is the law then contrary to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the law."
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  Wonderment

  Romans chapter 14 seems to indicate that the old Jewish system with its sabbaths, specific diet, and special days observed were done away with.

  The word "lawless" (or "unprincipled") of 2 Peter 3:17 refers to "a person who breaks through the restraint of law to satisfy selfish desire the lawless one, the licentious person (2P 2.7)." (Friberg & Miller) There is still a Christian law which Christians must abide by.
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  objectivetruth

  Hi Sowhatnow - Thanks for your thoughts.

  As far as Remaining a Gentile if one failed to follow the Law perfectly, I see it differently. If a Gentile or a Jew ever followed The Law perfectly (And did not Sin) He would never Die. It is Sin that brings Death (The person who sins is the one who will die. Ezek 18:10)

  eames 2:10 "For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it." (The reason for this is that if we break one part we have sinned, and Sin brings death)

  God forgives Humans that break the Law, but this does not mean we should break the laws, freely without remorse (Romans 6:1-3)

  There is indeed a reward for those that Follow The Law. Revelation 14:12 "This calls for patient endurance on the part of the people of God who keep his commands and remain faithful to Jesus."

  I am not one who feels that the Bible is Infallible, or the unadulterated word of God.. I feel that it is a Puzzle, and the Reward for solving it (In deed) is Life.

  I can appreciate leaving out Revelation, and distrusting its Accuracy.

  One important scripture to me is Matthew 22:29 "But Jesus answered them, “You are wrong, because you know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God." - I feel that he was insinuating that the Scriptures had indeed been tampered with.. But this did not mean they were to be thrown out all together, rather we have to discern the what is Imspired, and what is not.

  I believe that the Roman Empire invented Christianity, but I'm not aware of the Claid that they Invented Jesus. If you recall any of the books that proposed this, please let me k ow what they are. Thanks
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  objectivetruth

  Hi Wonderment - According to my understanding, there was a great deal of controversy around Meat & Drink in the First Century. Not only Kosher / Unkosher meat, but Meat all Together.

  There was a Sect of Judaism called The Nazarenes. Paul was mentioned as (Posaibly) a member of this Sect " For we have found this man a plague, one who stirs up riots among all the Jews throughout the world and is a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes." (Acts 24:5)

  The Nazarenes did not Drink Alcohol of any type, nor did they eat any Meat. Secular liteature describes many fights between the Sects of the time on the topic of Vegetarianism.

  The scripture is significant in my view " You may believe there's nothing wrong with what you are doing, but keep it between yourself and God. Blessed are those who don't feel guilty for doing something they have decided is right." (Romans 14:22 ) An individual may have decided eating Meat was ok, and another , may have felt it was wrong.. The important thing was That they did not Judge one another, or feel superior, it was also Important that they were acting on what they legitimately felt was right in God's Eyes.

  What do you feel is entailed in The Christian Law?
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  sowhatnow

  i watched this documentary on line, it was removed off you tube for copyright infringment, now i have to delete the bookmark.

  but it was called who is jesus, and the true story of the catholic church.[ top documentary films,]

  it was interesting. not sure what to think.

  the bible, has kept mankiond in a tizzy for a long long time, much is missing, its not for us to try to figure it out and judge others by what they see.

  I try to explain this to my mom, and it never fails she uses that old scripture

  you must all speak in agreement.....

  she says jesus said that, i said paul did, i dont care actually, and thats not what he meant that we all must think alike exactly the same its impossible were not clones.

  this is what she is believing at her meetings That EVERYONE who is a wittness must speak the same! OMG how freaking boring!

  i havent had time to go into detail about that situation in teh bible where he said that, to explain it to her, she just tells me over and over that we ALL must agree to be in harmony with God. bla bla bla, and since I dont agree, my faith is wavering.

  yea well i hope my big mouth sister doesnt tell my jw mom that Im making a turkey this year a request of my husbands,

  and having her and the kids over.
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  objectivetruth

  LOL No Joke ... "That EVERYONE who is a wittness must speak the same! OMG how freaking boring!" I absolutely hate his about the Witness Mentaliy.. It's like " We're all in Agreement, so what is the use of studying or discussing any scriptural topic."

  It's so absurd Prov 27:17 " Iron sharpens iron, and one man sharpens another." - If both blades are Dull and they do not even make contact, how can they Possibly Sharpen One Another.

  Knowledge and Wisdom are arrived at through Argument, Discussion and Contemplation.. If Argument is improper how can anyone Explain Abraham Arguing with God, about the fate of Sodom? God allows and even appreciates humble and respectful Debate.

  Debate is what the Bible is ALL about.. What is true what is not, who is God, who Isn't he? Internal debate is what humanities test is all about.. Do we accept that God is a Murdering, Blood Lusting, Child Sacrifice Demanding God, or do we question a Book, that Contradicts itself, and The Characters of God?

  I feel that the Bible reads us more then we do it. Hebrews 4:12 " For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart."

  Humans and Societies do generally not Find Truth in the scriptures, they find Justification for the Evils within them. They reason.. "Surely if David and many other Scriptural Males fornicated, surely it's a fact of life.. I can do the same" OR "The Israelites stoned individuals, for Apostasy, surely we can Shun and act as though dead, ones that we deem as apostate"

  If Jesus required absolute Agreement on certain matters, why did he refuse to Answer Questions? After his disciples asked if he was Restoring the Kingdom to Physical Israel.. He replied “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority." He didn't say.. " The Kingdom will be in heaven, and then on earth" he simply ignored their question... How would it be possible for these Disciples to "speak In agreement" after a non response from Christ? It wasn't possible, only humility and tolerance were possible.

  A cross reference to 1 Cor 1:10 is Phil 1:27 " Whatever happens, conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ. Then, whether I come and see you or only hear about you in my absence, I will know that you stand firm in the one Spirit, striving together as one for the faith of the gospel."

  The Gospel of Christ is Love, Peace, Pacifism. Forgiveness, Humility and Tolerance... it is Not Doctrine , Knowledge, Opinion and Interpretation.
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  humbled

  Objective truth--

  Are relying on the word "lawless people" to help make your point? You shouldn't unless you have checked out the Greek. Other bible translations that use words like "wicked people", "unprincipled persons", "error of the impious', "immoral men" make it doubtful that the Mosaic Law is referenced here.