The most important Bible scripture in history for JW's!

by Crazyguy 12 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Crazyguy

  Luke 12:41 New International Version (NIV)

  41 Peter asked, “Lord, are you telling this parable to us, or to everyone?”

  Thats right this little scripture is the most important and telling scripture of all why? Because this is the parable yes parable about the Fathful and Discreet Slave and Peter himself said it..Below is the full passage.

  Luke 12:35-48 New International Version (NIV)

  Watchfulness

  35 “Be dressed ready for service and keep your lamps burning, 36 like servants waiting for their master to return from a wedding banquet, so that when he comes and knocks they can immediately open the door for him. 37 It will be good for those servants whose master finds them watching when he comes. Truly I tell you, he will dress himself to serve, will have them recline at the table and will come and wait on them. 38 It will be good for those servants whose master finds them ready, even if he comes in the middle of the night or toward daybreak. 39 But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what hour the thief was coming, he would not have let his house be broken into. 40 You also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.”

  41 Peter asked, “Lord, are you telling this parable to us, or to everyone?”

  42 The Lord answered, “Who then is the faithful and wise manager, whom the master puts in charge of his servants to give them their food allowance at the proper time? 43 It will be good for that servant whom the master finds doing so when he returns. 44 Truly I tell you, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 45 But suppose the servant says to himself, ‘My master is taking a long time in coming,’ and he then begins to beat the other servants, both men and women, and to eat and drink and get drunk. 46 The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the unbelievers.

  47 “The servant who knows the master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows. 48 But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked.

  Maybe this would be a good time to start sharing this with ones still stuck in however best done so..
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  Crazyguy

  Just so I didn't get the message across correctly in my first post, the faithful and discreet slave is just a parable so there is no literal faithful and discreet slave class, like the GB would have you believe..
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  Bobcat

  And notice how Jesus eventially answers Peter's question ( “are you telling this parable to us, or to everyone?”):

  verse 48:

  • ". . . everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked"

  Judging by Jesus' response, Peter's "us" evidently meant the apostles; "everyone" being all the disciples. Jesus' saying in verse 48 applies the parable to every disciple who feels they've been "given much," as well as those "entrusted" with responsibiliy.

  From the WT's standpoint, it makes sense that they rarely quote this part of the passage. It demolishes their interpretation.

  See also here and here for further links & research on this parable

  Bobcat
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  Kalos

  Crazyguy

  You are right 100%. Everyone understands it as it truly is: JESUS WAS HIGHLIGHTING INDIVIDUAL PREPAREDNESS. If it were about the appointment of God's channel (as JWs interpret), Catholic Church would have quoted this verse (and its parallel verse Mathew 24:45) as a basis for them to be God's channel.
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  Crazyguy

  To add to what you're saying Bobcat look at what Jesus said to Nicodemus, that one must be reborn to see the kingdom of god, at John 3. Well Nicodemus was not a disciple or apostle of christ just an interested one. And again at John 6 Jesus is telling everyone while talking to a crowd at Copernium that they must eat his flesh and drink his blood to be to have life in themselves. Again he was addressing everyone that was listening not just a specific class of followers. There are also scriptures in Romans, Acts and Ephesian where its says God shows no Favoritism. This just reinforces the notion that all christians are equal.
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  sowhatnow

  i see he never answered him.

  vs 46 there is funny, how can you assign someone a place with unbelievers , when your cut them into peices?

  there must be more than one master, vs 46 says that master of that servant.

  add these too.

  from jwfacts info

  the appointment over all the belongings is made AFTER THE MASTER ARRIVES

  MATT 24 46-47

  the master has not arrived, the memorial is to cease after his arrival, so the master has not been appointed over the belongings

  1st cor 11 vs 26

  still doing memorial.....
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  Island Man

  Crazyguy, I understand what you're saying. But an indoctrinated JW will just weasel his way out of Luke 12:41 by saying that Peter was wrong in saying it was a parable. The JW will say that Peter and the apostles at that time lacked full appreciation of all that Jesus was saying and so Peter's words referring to Jesus' saying as a parable cannot be taken as gospel anymore than can the apostles wrong assumption that Jesus was restoring the kingdom to earthly Israel as per their question at Acts 1:6.

  One time I asked a question on Yahoo Answers where I reasoned on James 5:7 and 2 Peter 3:9 to demonstrate that christ's presence could not have started in 1914 because

  1. James 5:7 tells christians to exercise patience until the presence of the lord. The need for christians to exercise patience should therefore end when christ's presence begins, according to the encouragement at James 5:7. So the fact that we see christians still exercising patience a whole century after 1914 serves as evidence that the presence did not start in 1914.

  2. 2 Peter 3:9 in answering the question raised by ridiculers asking where is the promised presence, indicates that God is patient in bringing the promised presence because he wants to give people opportunity to repent. This necessarily implies that when the presence starts there would be no more time to repent as it would start with the destructive day of Jehovah wherein the wicked will be destroyed - not a century of invisible kingdom rule as the JWs are claiming. So the presence could not have started 100 years ago as that would mean people still having a whole century to repent in contradiction to 2 Peter 3:9's implicit point that there would be no time left to repent once the presence starts. An objective examination of 2 Peter chapter 3 reveals that Peter associated the presence with the destructive day of the lord ("Jehovah", NWT) and compared it with the flood of Noah's day. Peter does not give the slightest hint or mention that the presence will start invisibly for a century (which surely would have been an important point in light of the question being asked by the ridculers). Peter implicitly teaches a very visible and destructive presence, equating it with the day of the lord.

  3. I futher mentioned the fact that, according to JW theology, the ridiculers' would actually be living during christ's presence and still asking where is his presence, because JWs believe that the last days began with the start of christ's presence. If the JW teaching is true then this would certainly be a great irony showing how blind the ridiculers are and yet the inspired bible writer makes no mention of this great irony and great blindness on the part of the ridiculers. Surely he would have done so if the ridiculers of the last days were living during the very presence they were asking about.

  What responses did I get?

  Sunshine: " Peter had the understanding God granted him at the time - just as Daniel did before him."

  DANIEL 12:8-9
  "Although I heard, I did not understand. Then I said, “My lord, what shall be the end of these things?” And he said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. " - New King James Version (NKJV)

  So a JW - at least the one I quoted above - is willing to believe that the bible implicitly teaches error in some places due to limited knowledge of the writers, rather than humbly admit that their 1914 invisible presence doctrine is wrong according to the bible.
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  Crazyguy

  Island-Man, you are correct in that those who do not wish to see or wish to hear or wish to think will not, but by pointing out these scriptures to ones maybe it will help some wake up. We each woke up either by something that happened to us or something we read or something someone said. I am just showing more ammunition to those of us that are awake to use that will possibly wake someone up.

  This is all I can hope for..I keep sharing tidbits with my oldest son. Today I mentioned this to him as well as that the GB live like kings. I have shared other things with him and will continue. I know he doesn't always listen and at times he dismisses me out right, but in time with all the things I share he will have an awakening, it may take years but it will happen. We have some much ammunition at our disposal that if we actually use it we can and will wake people up. I helped, along with his unloving congregation, wake up a friend last year, so I can only hope to do the same with my family.
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  smiddy

  Island Man

  I can agree that some JW`s will answer as you say , particulary the older generation , however , I would hazard a guess that the majority of witnesses nowadays have little knowledge of what the scriptures actually say , especially the young ones and by that I mean people under 30 years of age .

  From what I can gather this young generation just accept what comes out of the G.B. without doing any research of their own , a recipe for disaster.

  And the previous posters to yours , their suggestions could very well get them to question their beleifs , or at least to stop and use their brain instead of swallowing down everything that comes out of brooklyn .

  Just my 2 cents worth

  smiddy
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  Bobcat

  Incidentally CrazyGuy, my post was in support of yours and intended to provide further reference for any lurkers/readers interested in understanding the incongruencies in the WT's "faithful slave" dogma. I think you have a pretty good grasp of the problems in the WT's self-serving explanation of that parable.

  Bobcat