I loved what you wrote, and I agree that AM the Turd is a moron.
But calling him that to your mother won't help your cause.
My messagew to my mother post "branch talk".
by problemaddict 2 19 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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problemaddict 2
Well you you prognosticators.......yes she only seemed to read the last sentence.
A lengthly back and forth ensued. Heres the first part of it.
HER: You were not there to say such things. The only point of the talks were to be encouraging, and they were...very much so. Mothers gather guilt like lint....and old jewish saying that tends to be true. I don't want to hear criticism of my hope or my loving father. It is a priviledge to be even the smallest part of this loving international brotherhood, declaring Gods kingdom and jesus ransom sacrifice. My only regret is that I did not come to know jehovah sooner in my life. I pray to endure until the end and praise him with my last breath. My dear son, I feel you have been poisoned. I wish you would take off the negative grey glasses you look through. Gods Kingdom will rule over the earth. You know the scriptures. You know about the paradise. I will absolutely always love you.
ME: Mom. I love you too. Its because of that love i want you to think seriously about what you just did. You called my criticism of a man giving a talk, as being against jehovah. It wasn't. It was against Mr Morris. You conflate the two (men and God) so easily mom. I think that is not right to do, and yet you do it so easily, and probably without knowing it.
My comments stand. The subtext was clear. The man admitting it was his fault his 2 youngest were not JW's.....was told he was right to feel that way in this talk. "God understands? Thats not the Jehovah of the bible, not the Jehovah I know." Terrible......just terrible.
Ranting about tight workout clothes, visiting Disneyland instead of bethel, kids being out of the religion being the parents fault, bright socks, a homosexual agenda to get men to wear tight pants so they can walk around ogling them.......and this is the leadership? The dominant personality on the body? Good grief mom. All I wanted to do was tell you that you raised your children well, that you taught them proper values, and that you should not judge your efforts as a mother as succesful or not succesful based on this one small aspect of their life decisions. If that didn't cross your mind, them my statement probably isn't very meaningful, but when i heard it i felt compelled to reach out to my mother, and tell her never to allow herself to have guilt uneccesarily heaped on her. Thats it.
And mom.......I'm not negative. You already know this. and I forgive you for suggesting I'm poisoned. I realize the training is that you must square someone leaving with one of two things. They either have a flaw in their heart condition, or are weak. what a sad thing to think about your most well balanced, happy and succesful of your children. I don't hold it against you when you say those things. You latched onto the last sentence of a text...a sentence I probably wrote uneccesarily out of frustration, but you ignored my point. Why not re-read it?
More to follow.
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OnTheWayOut
I am prepared to ask my JW wife or mother as softly as possible, "So did they talk about the serious problems in the United States with Jehovah's people?"
"What about all the lawsuits they are losing about covering up pedophile problems?"
"What about how people are having difficulty with the thoughts behind 'overlap generation'?" -
TTATTelder
Man it's crazy how they double-down so quick and resort to judgment and damnation. Nothing logical. Nothing level-headed or calm. All over-reaction desperate emotional drama.
judgemental tone of this ranting moron
6 words sent her over the edge. That's how fragile the whole belief system is. She went straight to "my hope", "my loving father", " loving international brotherhood", "God's kingdom", "Jesus ransom Sacrifice". ....Good grief.
You see how indocrinated they are to believe the GB members are connected to God at the hip. You speak even remotely negative about them you are disrespecting God himself.
So sad. Sorry you have to deal with this. Thanks for sharing.
-TE
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Crazyguy
My wife daughter and one of the sister in the kh were commenting on Facebook how wonderful and upbuilding this event was. What a joke, their delusional and unfortunately your mother is too. Once their convinced that this religion is gods their done.
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Oubliette
PA2: The man admitting it was his fault his 2 youngest were not JW's
Au contraire. The 2 didn't leave "the Truth," they just aren't Ministerial Servants!
Here's a transcription thanks to Apognophos:
Here's what happened, this is very touching -- a very responsible brother here at Bethel sharing this about his family and his dad -- and it's quite sobering as to what's involved with the need to really "train up a boy" as Prov. 22 brings to our attention, verse 6, that-that training takes time. And I've often thought of this, look what these people do with their children [mumbled] Olympics! And they say Jehovah's Witnesses are crazy, you know? And I remember watching this one years ago, a story on a girl who was an ice skater. They had that girl on the rink at 5 in the morning, before she sent to school. Came home, did her, um, then after school she went back on the rink, then she came home and did her homework at eight o'clock at night. And they say *we're* nuts, because we want our children to go out in the ministry and such; don't give in to that absurd, erroneous thinking.
So here's this father, well, all seven are still in the truth, the five older children all served for some years as regular pioneers, three of the boys served at Bethel for many years; the two youngest boys didn't do as much in the truth, they're not even involved serving in the congregation.You know, a man that's not serving, there should be a real good reason why they're not serving as a ministerial servant.
'Member a sister -- you know how elders get put in awkward positions? -- "Uh, what's, what's the story with this brother, I'm interested in marrying him." But they had already gone too far along. I tried to tell her,
I said, "Well, think about it, he's 23 years old. He's not a ministerial servant. *Hmm.*" She married him. She paid for that wrong decision. 23 years old, and you're not serving as a ministerial servant?
So this is the kind of thing that happened to two of 'em out of the seven. And the brother writes, "Over the years, Dad always has said it's his fault they did not do better in the truth. I would object and tell him 'Don't blame yourself, the system got worse.' However he would firmly say" -- this is an honest man -- "'No, in my heart, I know that I did not give them the same time and attention I gave the five older children.' He contests, 'I got tired of raising kids and just assumed that the two younger ones would follow in the example of the older five. I did not give the time and devotion that I did to the first five.'"
Now, he knew that, and he knew he couldn't go back and change it. He assumed full responsibility, and he *was* reponsible. Maybe these two will come to their senses 'cause their Dad has since died, but it shows: the lack of taking the time and the training... it shows. There's no substitute for it. You can either [even?] put the working effort in, give 'em the best opportunities -- you know when you do all of that, they have to make the truth their own.It's not that they LEFT "the Truth," it's that they didn't "do better" in it!
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problemaddict 2
Oubillete.....are you sure? I listed to the talk, and in transcript form I could see that making sense, but in the "flow" of his comments it certainly sounded as though this mans two youngest are not witnesses. In fact......I am sure of it.
Thanks for the comments everyone. Here is some more of the text in order.
HER: Thank you for the part about saying you love me. A mother never hears too much of that. ____ I heard and saw the same delivery. I came away with an entirely different feeling. Entirely. Why do you suppose that is?
Yes I have visited Bethel. I went with you. Do you remember? We almost got in an accident with that bus, that lady cop was so mad at me for being in the wrong lane, but it was all my fault. Then we stayed at the sister board and care place near Walkill and you stayed up and heard stories from your brothers all over about live in different places while playing cards and laughing. Then we got to help with the harvest, and saw the pigs being born. I am so glad we got to go. You loved it, even though you were already a teenager. So yeah, I think there is a benefit to taking your family to Bethel.
And yes I see the homosexual influence in the fashion industry. You want your buys to dress like ALL boy, and not sissies right? What wrong with that?
Noone is heaping guilt on me son. I do regret that you and (*my sister), no longer serve Jehovah. You are my children. Everlasting life is involved. You and your families......you know how I feel. You know the scriptures so well. You could recite the entire books of the bible at 2 years old, and gave your first talk at 5! I still have never seen anything liek it. You were "trained from infancy". But you have developed a twisted way of looking at my heavenly father. The one that loved the world so much that he offered his most precious son to be torchured and put to death. U and I woul never do that for the human family. Which of our children would we give in exchange for any person? That is the depth of his love.
Me: Mom....once again you are calling my viewpoint twisted, and you don't even know what it is. You are conflating my issues with the governing body and erroneous teachings/doctrine.....with jehovah himself. (side point......I am leaning agnostic, but that would be another can of worms, so I'm keeping on even understanding in the text at this point)
You are doing it without even realizing you are doing it. Very dangerous.
And yes mom those are fantastic memories of a good time. I have no regrets in my childhood. But alot of that was because I was spending time with my mother, and out meeting other people. Not just where we were at. I am so glad i never turned in my application for ____ to look for (I had an in at bethel).
Mom I do not believe Jehovah is goin gto kill 99.9% of the people on earth, and I will not allow my boys to be taught such things, especially by the likes of Anthony morris while looking to him for guidance as you do thinking that God wants them to do so. You and I thought differently about the talk, because we have differing views. You know what? That is ok! Its ok to difer in opinion.
One thing you have to stop doing however, is suggesting to me that my children will die as a result of the stand that I have taken. When I had the issues with the blood doctrine and you wanted me to get help what did i do? I spoke to the local elders, HLC comitee, called the service desk, spoke to ______ (a CO friend of ours), and it all came down to the same thing. When the policy didn't hold weight scripturally, it came down to asking wether I believed the GB was in fact being used by Jehovah. If so, then just listen, obey, and be blessed. I knew then what I had to do.
TBC....
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wannabefree
Thanks for sharing.
Everything to defend the cult. Funny (in a sad way) how a JW can be disappointed or discouraged by something like this ... until somebody like a child, or spouse, points it out then all of a sudden they defend the cult.
I have noticed this with my wife too.
The Org emotionally abuses their followers and the rank&file just say hit me again.
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scary21
It reminds me of when I told my mom the Pope was over in Cuba signing bibles, (he wasn't) She said it was terrible. Then I told her it was the GB, and she made all kinds of excuses. Can you imagine what a JW would say if a preist were giving that same talk (sermon) in the Catholic church ?
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DesirousOfChange
When the policy didn't hold weight scripturally, it came down to asking wether I believed the GB was in fact being used by Jehovah.
Would someone who is contradicting the inspired Word of God be "used by Jehovah"?
Doc