Michael Brown verdict discussion policy

by Simon 254 Replies latest forum announcements

• 

  talesin

  lol @ Simon! Haha, okay, true story. It was 1981, I was in my first year of marriage, in the burbs about 20 km outside the city. My ex-hubbie was a pothead, and hey, that was no big deal in the 70s and 80s. Just like the Breakfast Club, there were jocks, stoners, freaks, etc. He hung out with a variety of groups, and was well liked and hard working.
  
  One of our friends was a big weed seller, and his father was the Big Cheese at the local RCMP detachment. The cops never bothered our friend "D", as his business was harmless. Once a year or so, though, they would drag him down to the detachment and hold him overnight for a medium to fair beating - just for being a rotten cop's kid.

  A friend of my parents', an elder, called the RCMP one night about a prowler. This was in the country - they showed up 1/2 hour later, and the officer was so drunk he had to hold onto the car door to remain standing.

  In the past 10 years, at least 2 officers in my city were found guilty of coercing prostitutes into giving them oral sex in lieu of being arrested.

  A google search will reveal how cops in Canada treat the mentally ill, but here there was at least one case. The local police arrested a man who was (a) known to be a person dealing with schizophrenia (b) known to be non violent, even when having a psychotic break. This was in the news. They threw him, head first, into the paddy wagon, and he died of head injuries. Another man died in the local jail recently - he also was known to have MI and other physical problems, and left in his cell instead of being retained in the hospital. There was a big inquiry about that one.

  So, no Boss Hogg. :P We Canadians can get a bit smug sometimes. Yes, we have gun control (hooray!), and not as much 'death-by-cop', but hey, neither you nor I live in Toronto (shudders), Vancouver or Montreal, where the big-time players are operating. And as for our police, meh.

  Lots of stuff goes on ....

  tal

  Edit: I realize the term "paddy wagon" is not PC, and my apologies to anyone of Irish heritage who takes objection to the term.
• 

  Fisherman

  I am only saying how the jury is going to decide and the legal basis for oW actions. I do not have to agree with it. He cannot be convicted because his actions were legal.

  Ow had other options.
• 

  TheSilence

  So did Michael.
• 

  talesin

  TheSilence, I agree with what you say, too. I don't mess with police. And I'm white, female and older.

  One cold February night, about 2 years ago, I had a new-hire beat cop hassle me because I stepped off the curb a second before the light changed to green. It was -20C, and the downtown was empty. He went up one side of me, an older grey-haired woman delivering medicine to her sick friend, and down the other - for what? His partner stood by, embarrassed, looking at the ground and keeping herself distanced. I said "yes, sir", "no, sir" and gave him the apology he demanded for DARING to jaywalk (well, kinda) on a frigid winter's eve.

  He was smirking. But I just took the high road, and, in this case, I believe the wiser choice. To keep my mouth shut and realize that he is an asshole and not worth getting myself arrested over.

  I relate the personal experience to illustrate how cautious I feel any citizen has to be around the police nowadays. If I were 18, African-Canadian, and 6'4", I would go about securing my civil liberties via having friends record rude cops, legal protest, etc. Not by robbing a convenience store and then tackling an officer on duty. Brazen? Sure. But just . not . logical! (ie, without making a judgment call about his behaviour,,, it just doesn't make sense? Did he grow up in America?)

  tal
• 

  Simon

  talesin: what you are doing is taking one of a very few incidents (which do exist, there was a guy killed at an airport with a taser about 5-10 years ago) and using it as an example for the claim that there must be many others, which claim is then based on anecdotal evidence and personal limited experience.

  The reality is that there aren't that many incidents expecially considering how many things the police deal with in total but sadly there will always be some - we are dealing with people and there are no guarantees, nothing is absolutely risk free. If you give cops non-lethal alternatives it doesn't mean that there will never be people killed using them.

  Airbags and seatbelts save lives and are "a good thing" but they also kill a few people too.
• 

  Simon

  I realize the term "paddy wagon" is not PC, and my apologies to anyone of Irish heritage who takes objection to the term.

  Don't worry, they'll all be too drunk to notice ... boom-tish !

  I get my diplomatic skills from watching Top Gear ;)
• 

  Fisherman

  outsmart the hunter.
• 

  talesin

  ha! well, there's that, too. ;) Simon, that is also years of working with youth at risk, being a teen and 20-something back when times were a lot different, and living a full and rich life. I ran across many different characters in the past 35 years, and have a lot of tales that could be told, that is true.

  As I said on another thread, it's a sad truth that bullies will gravitate to the police force. There are lots of statistics on 'domestic violence' in terms of cops and spousal abuse. The Fifth Estate has done at least one or two programmes this century, on this issue as well. [ EDIT: 'this issue' meaning police and correctional officers' violence / neglect of the mentally ill ]

  My anecdotes, as I said in my comment above, are intended to be illustrations. It's tough to be a cop, and that is true. Burnout contributes to a lot of incidents - of course. There is also a significant percentage of BAD COPS.

  It's funny, you don't like to hear a reality you don't want to hear. We are all like that, it's a human quality. Do some research - check the studies, instead of trying to push off my comments as irrelevant.

  I was dating a guy who wanted his kid to be a cop. So, he finished high school, and 2 years later, was hired. Shazaam. Yes, it is easy to get in. The RCMP has higher standards, but for city cops, and sheriffs, it's just not so.

  That's my thinking, Fisherman. *nods head* " outsmart the hunter."
• 

  DesirousOfChange

  The RCMP has higher standards, but for city cops, and sheriffs, it's just not so.

  That's how it is for municipal cops in the US.

  Last week the small town cop might have been a security guard for a trailer park.

  Doc
• 

  Simon

  talesin: I think you are only looking at half the story.

  Police have a higher rate of domestic violence but then so do paramedics and firemen. What you are measuring isn't how much of a bully they are but what the effect of high-stress occupations has on people. All first responders have high rates of divorce, domestic violence and suicide for all sorts of reasons. They sign up to do good and geat beat down seeing all the crap - some tragic tails of people who have saved lives in high profile situations who later take their own life.

  The combination of job-risk coupled with high-risk demographics (age, ethnicity and gender) mean than white male cops younger than 35 (typical for those on patrol duty) who come into daily contact with violence and traumatic events are at particular high risk. Claiming that it's just bullies that gravitate to the police is low and simplistic IMO. Do the same bullies become firemen too?

  I suggest you do a more thorough job of researching to find out all the issues and not just some convenient headline figure to confirm your pre-existing biases.

  Really, 2 years? How long do you expect it to take to apply to be a cop? A decade? I expect you need certain high school qualifications and a clean criminal record which has probably already discounted a lot of the population. There will be training because I don't recall ever seeing any "be a cop" college programme that someone can attend.