if tomorrow dozens of jws learned of ttatt

by sowhatnow 20 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  stuckinarut2

  There is no doubt that there are qualities we like in many people in the congregations...

  But the question is, If the common faith bond is removed, and the person allows their "real personality" to shine, rather that their "cult personality", then who REALLY is that person? Would we really LIKE that person and be drawn to be their friend?

  A real friendship has to be formed based on openness and genuiness....and a common respect for one anothers personal opinions...not just because people are drones or copies of one another....
• 

  Simon

  Just because someone learns TTATT does not automatically make them a likeable or better person.

  True, it always amazes me how some seem to view "left of kicked out of the WTS" as a badge of honor. Hey, some people were kicked out for damn good reasons and we've often campaigned for the WTS to protect their members better.

  We need to distinguish between the people who leave because of WTS control issues vs the ones who are booted because they are slime - the latter are not welcome here.
• 

  nonjwspouse

  In the non jw/KH world, friendships take work. They take concious planning and sacrificing some time to keep the friendship healthy. From what I read, this is a forigen concept to the JW/KH friendship ideas. The nessesity is that you MAKE time. Schedule time. Plan time. Just like any other appointment, only this is one for your freindships. JUST as important as a DR appointment for your personal social/emotional health. It is EASY to let time get away. Many people do, and regret it.

  I can lose friendship connections if I do not take the time and effort to keep them alive. Unless they are people I am running in to due to school/work/family/neighbors etc. ( Those kind of "built in" ) Even those need some time and effort put into them if the friendship is to flourish.

  There are some friends I consider life long, unconditional and even when we are apart for years, we pick up where we left off. We never hold judgement for lost time. When I am with those friends I feel regret I don't do more effort to make sure we see each ther more regulalrly. But we are still the best of friends and always will be.

  Marriage relationships also fall along this same concept. It should be a continual work and effort to flourish and improve. Not to take for granted that you just live in the same house, and that is enough.
• 

  apostrate

  Simon,

  I agree with your last statement. I learned soon after leaving WT Land that there is not necessarily a real bond between X-JW's. People leave or get kicked out for many different reasons. Some turn around and join other controlling cults, some sink into drugs and other immoralities, some even commit suicide. One thing I have noticed also in people that I have known, the majority take up smoking cigarettes, even if they never smoked a day in their life before. ( I never felt that smoking cigarettes should have been a DF offense, I just agree with most that it is not a healthy habit).

  I realize that there is a lot of anger built up inside one when they realize TTATT, there certainly was in me, but I strive to be a better person than the one I was while in WT Land. I will never get entirely over the emotional and mental scars from life in the WT but I manage pretty well
• 

  sowhatnow

  id say born ins who leave will have a much harder time finding acceptable friendships due to the learned high standards for people in general.

  so Id say for me, im not going to turn all 'worldly' like as far as swearing up a storm though i do the hell and dam bit, and id never go back to smoking

  it stinks and would flare up my allergies plus who can afford it. id not choose to be freinds with smokers for that reason, and i wouldnt choose certain types of people who i have no common intrests, like im not into country music, or hard rock, or beer, or football, or guns or tatoos, long hair,

  or motorcycles. being so used to suited men and better dressed ladies, its hard t osee myself with those who dress farmer like.

  id naturally gravitate to buisness like people into the arts, or, politics or golf clubs or sales people. as for the holidays?

  I wont go all chrstmas thats for sure, but i will go to any party or event im invited to.

  right now, the only people whom i associate with is my boring tv loving husband which isnt grand in any sense of the word, and my daughter occationally.

  i have no job right now, hard to get one at my age with no education.

  so i dont get out to meet people. so its going to be difficult for me at age 52, to find any freinds.

  anyone else have that feeling?
• 

  apostrate

  sowhatnow,

  Yeah! I have that feeling, very much so! I can relate to most everything you say. People "of the world", as they say, look upon me like a freak, as though I'm a bible-thumping nerd that they are afraid of offending should they say the word "butt". And the reality is, I am not a bible thumping anything, I'm just trying to be a good guy.

  And then there is the JW's, who look upon me as though I'm a part of the Manson family ("I've heard he listens to rock music and country music, eewww")!

  I'm 60 years old and out of work. Fat chance of me finding work in the small town that I live in. So why don't I move into the city? Glad you asked, here's where my story gets real interesting!

  I am not married and I moved here to help take care of my elderly mom, a JW for the last 50 years. The Kingdom Hall closed down here over 10 years ago, so she is the only JW in this town. She refuses to leave her house. In my opinion she is a WINO, (that is, Witness In Name Only).

  The closest Kingdom Hall is an hour away. I ceased attending meetings years ago. I am not DF'd. When JW's do come to visit my mom, I treat them very cordially, I know that they are visiting my mom, not me. But if asked, I never fail to tell them where I stand, so they quit asking.

  I don't actually know this, but I strongly suspect that the only reason that they don't DF me is, if they do, it will fall upon the JW's to take care of my mom, and they don't want that. But I believe they do want to inherit my mom's house and bank accounts. Not while I'm alive , they won't!

  So you see, I'm kind of between a rock and a hard place. Go back and watch the last fifteen minutes of "The Good, The Bad, And The Ugly", the famous stand off scene. That's exactly how I feel right now.

  And even though my mom is in her 90's, I'm beginning to think she may outlive me!
• 

  Vidiot

  Well, it's "tomorrow", and I'm willing to bet that a couple dozen more have learned the Truth About the Truth.

  @ apostrate; My wife recently wondered out loud the same thing about my devout JW mom, LOL!

  Dig your username, BTW.
• 

  sowhatnow

  apostrate, the reputation we gain from being a jw sticks with us unfortuantely. we get an automatic [visual] conclusion drawn when we are introduced to someone and at some point it comes out we were 'once' jehovahs witnesses' now that whole idea clouds evverything else and they cant view us like one of them, normal people. its like they trip all over themselves not knowing how to act.

  you have more patience than i do, you sound as if your an only child. i feel your pain, but its fear that keeps us from being brave and moving out of a dead end situation Im guilty of that myself, by being still married to my husband. I have no prospects that wouldnt pull me into poverty.

  so i stay so i have a home and food and maintain at least a semi middle class status. but Im sure not happy about it.

  im sure theres a lot of reasons why she wont relocate but ,

  you mean to tell me, if you told her to sell the house and buy another one closer to a kingdom hall so she can go more often, [if shes even able to]

  she isnt open to the idea? use her psycology. get closer to the hall see people, have new area to explore, bla bla. id call her bluff. start packing, lol

  and yes you certainly need some sort of job if anything just to get out of the house!

  god, go get a job at mcdonalds just to get a break from the monotony. im going crazy this past two weeks being sick with the flu being home!

  yea exactly why they dont df you, your her caretaker, but also they might simply not care to begin with,

  your not 'spreading propaganda' your no threat to them. but here where i live, when someone reaches an age like her they force them into a nursing home, ive seen it done three times so far. the elders work with the family to convince the person tha t there is no other way, and uses the idea that its service t o God if they relive thier family of the time consuming burden, and opens up 'new territory' being in a facility. whatever, and out they go .

  but heads up, id make it known to her, that

  your a guy shes a girl, and your not a young man anymore,

  there is going to ome a time when your hands will be tied, youll have no choice but to put her in a facility. use the elders in her hall to your advantage if you can to force her into a better situation if need be. if you have siblings they can back you up.

  and that house if not in your name for at least 7 years, will go to the nursing home.

  she needs to know, that her home is payment for her future care, not the borg.

  Id have somehow put it in my name 10 years ago.

  yea i have my parents at age 72 and 74 thinking they have everything figured out

  when in fact they are financially struggling because they insist on having thier name attatched to a deed, the bank owns their place they are paying rent plus paying to maintain it. foolsih to me.

  they would be farther ahead renting it would cost them less in travel gas and heating fuel and maintainence. they have 2 unlevel acres , and mom seems to feel it needs cut like a golf course, so she spends hours doing this only to wear herself out.

  i dont want to have to deal with thier realestate issues, so yea whats up with people and thier possessions when they are jws???
• 

  Vidiot

  MissFit - "TTATT: short for The Truth About The Truth."

  I'm actually thinking of getting a tattoo of "TTATT" (maybe in "Sauron" or "Ringbearer" font, between my shoulder blades just under the shirt collar, or when I feel braver, on the inside of one wrist.).

  x

  A tat about the TATT.
• 

  apostrate

  sowhatnow,

  Thanks for your response! It sounds like you and I are in very similar situations. I am actively working on the best way to get out of this situation. If I were to tell you everything, it would be like writing a book, so for right now let me just address one thing you mention.

  "you mean to tell me, if you told her to sell the house and buy another one closer to a kingdom hall so she can go more often, [if shes even able to]

  she isnt open to the idea? use her psycology. get closer to the hall see people, have new area to explore, bla bla. id call her bluff. start packing, lol

  and yes you certainly need some sort of job if anything just to get out of the house!"

  Yep, that's exactly what I mean. Over ten years ago I was living in Arizona. I moved back to Texas and was unaware that the Kingdom Hall here had been closed. There were very few brothers and sisters here, but those who were, humbly sold their houses and possessions and moved closer into the cities to be near the KH's. Except my mom. She waved bye-bye to them and said "Keep in touch".

  Now, on one level, I can't fault her there. Pretty clever way to do a fade if you ask me. But she still acts like a "sister" strong in the truth. Telling her how much she needs to be near the brothers and sisters doesn't sway her one bit. I've been over that many times.

  The elders don't help matters any. They don't come to visit as much as they used to, but when I've brought the subject up with them they tell her how much Jehovah has blessed her by giving her this house. For the record, Jehovah didn't give her this house, the WT certainly didn't give her this house. She got it through an agent of Satan, a government program!

  I could just leave, I really should. If I called her bluff she would just say "Bye". I know her all too well. A couple of years ago I did make plans to leave but a very unfortunate thing happened. My younger brother suddenly died. That's where the real long story begins, and I had to stay in order to take care of managing his estate.

  If my mother were to just die suddenly, it would be one thing. But I don't see it happening that way. As you mentioned, she will probably end up going into a nursing home. You are right, they will take possession of her house.

  My mother listens to the meetings on her phone. She can turn 'em on and turn 'em off at her leisure. Once in awhile the elders pay her a visit and tell her what an inspiration she is and how much they love her. She'll cut 'em a check for a hundred bucks or so. She thinks she can buy her way into paradise.

  So as to my "Good, Bad, and Ugly" analogy, the lines are kinda blurred as to who the good guys and who the bad guys are.

  But as for me, well, I'm the Man With No Name, naturally. Stay tuned!