My views.

by ivanatahan 10 Replies latest jw friends

  • ivanatahan
    ivanatahan

    This is more of an introductory post discussing my views and background than anything else, really.

    I was, unfortunately, born into this religion. My mom was, and still is, a pioneer (or as some call it: "piousneer"), and my father is an elder. Admittedly, up until a few months up to a year back, I was indeed a zealous "servant of Jehovah". I always had my doubts and problems, but I still believed this was "the Truth". I gradually came to the point of realizing that this religion is a sham and is full of lies, and this is thanks to me realizing all the illogical contradictions found in the Watchtowers and general beliefs in this religion.

    One that spoke out to me was what Jehovah's Witnesses used as "evidence" against evolution and "evidence" that supported creation. They claimed that since the chances of someone rearranging lettered blocks into the alphabet while blindfolded is extremely unlikely. They used this comparison in relations to the chances that the Universe blindly organized itself into the form it is today. They use this as reason to prove that evolution didn't happen. What? How could you use the slim chances of something happening as reason for claiming it didn't happen? People get struck by lightning, people die in airplane accidents, but the chances of these events happening are slim. Does that mean that these things couldn't possibly have happened because the chances are slim? No. Unless you use the same logic as Jehovah's Witnesses use. This untied me from the chains as described in Socrates' (or Plato's) "Allegory of the Cave". As I found more and more contradictions and illogical reasoning, I eventually have gotten free of the chains and found the true source of "truth" and that this religion isn't the "truth". I believe I am still in the cave itself, but coming out into the outside, since I generally have come free by myself with generally no one else's intervention, and am rather lost in terms of where to go and what to do.

    I was baptized at a young age because I fancied a girl who was baptized shortly before I decided to get baptized. Sure, I did believe this was true. I was zealous. But I wasn't zealous so much in my mind as I was in my actions. I would always help out at the meetings, be it carry microphones or pass around Our Kingdom Ministries and generally made myself look like an exemplary young Witness, but I never actually enjoyed going to the meetings or conventions. My mother was strict, as many JWs are, and so my social abilities were not well developed, and it is one of the things that I truly hate and am ungrateful for. I can make friends, yes, but I always do something I didn't realize and lose them. I can barely talk to girls because I was held back by my parents because of the stupid rules against dating imposed by the organization. Because of this, my hold onto the "world" isn't firm, so I can't just leave the organization now. I need to be able to still have a life after I leave, because I know my family and friends will abandon me. I'm still young and haven't quite finished school, so I have hope that I can soon develope those abilities.

    My online research about Jehovah's Witnesses started last Thursday, I believe, as it may as well have been Friday, and it led me to this and many other websites. My view on the organization deteriorated a lot more than it was before. I hadn't looked online about JWs before because JWs were essentially said to refrain from doing so, and made it sound as if there would be radical claims about JW such as perhaps making JWs look like cannibals. I was mistaken.

    Through the months thinking about Jehovah's Witnesses, I've generally come to this conclusions.

    • The organization WAS NOT made to be an organization for making money. This was evident as it doesn't quite seem as though the Governing Body actually used the money donated to them for themselves, otherwise Anthony Morris III would fix his ridiculous haircut, as seen during his contrevorsial "tight pants" talk. Has anyone seen the hair behind his head? It's horrifying.
    • The purpose of the organization is otherwise unknown to me. It doesn't make sense that a group of people would go through all the trouble of printing out all these magazines and literature in hundreds of languages around the world for personal reasons. There are better ways to do that. So I do think that the Governing Body actually believes what they are preaching.
    • I don't think the Bible is "inspired". This is because JWs claim that since the Bible has links to accepted and proven history and science, and since it has practical solutions to problems that work, then it HAS to be true and HAS to have been inspired by God. Charlotte's Web also has things that resemble the real world, besides the talking animals, but it certainly doesn't mean it's true. Another thing that shows to me that the Bible isn't "inspired" is Noah's Flood. I'll just let you all reflect on the fact that the Bible claims there was once a flood that completely covered the Earth's surface.
    • Jehovah's Witnesses who genuinely believe in the "truth" have at least slight mental disorders. Just go to a meeting and observe those who attend, ignore those who appear to be not "into it".
    • Many more I can't think of right now.

    Please tell me about your thoughts and feelings, I'm a very open minded guy and reflect on criticisms.

  • Still Totally ADD
    Still Totally ADD

    Welcome ivanatahan to the bright side. You are on the right track to leaving this cult. I feel the GB is just a figure head for the organization. They are the ones who sets up the smoke screen for the bidding of others. I think the others are the lawyers but I may be wrong. Keep learning and take your time in your leaving the Borg. It was noah flood that open my eyes to the fact that the bible was not true. Take care. Still Totally ADD

  • sparrowdown
    sparrowdown

    You are on the right track ivan, read as much as you can, continue with your formal education, for it is key to a better life.

    Whether the GB are sincere but delusional or scamming everyone for personal gain doesn't really matter- wrong is wrong.

    I believe the purpose of the org is the same as any other org- to keep itself alive financially, that's all.

  • adjusted knowledge
    adjusted knowledge

    Welcome. One thing I wanted to comment on was

    "The organization WAS NOT made to be an organization for making money. This was evident as it doesn't quite seem as though the Governing Body actually used the money donated to them for themselves,"

    I once felt the same way. However think about this. These men are treated like the Pharaohs of old. They are living gods among millions of devoted JWs. At the very least they are treated as rock stars. Even their "helpers" they send to the conventions are given special attention. I've been out a long time but when I was active the GB members were not as prominent as they are now. These GB get to be TV evangelists and can now spread their non-sense at a push of a button. These Princes of Christ use the donations to enrich their lives. Do they get to drive in porsches? Perhaps not yet but don't be fooled that they don't use the money to travel where they please, eat what they want, and wear whatever suits they choose. And there has been no focus on these men's wifes. I wonder what they own in their bethel homes and what their wife's own in jewellery.

  • Simon
    Simon

    You have done a lot of reading already ... it's always good to be open minded.

    I don't believe the WTS was started to make money. I think like many other groups around the time it was founded they all were probably quite earnest (many came from the same root teachings / millerism).

    But eventually once any organization grows big enough it creates structure and control and people want position and authority and before you know it you have a high control religion even though it's possible that no one planned it as such.

    An organization takes on a life of it's own and is determined to grow and survive, sometimes acting counter to the opinions of many within it. There was a UK MP who wrote a great article on the subject which I'll try and find.

  • ivanatahan
    ivanatahan

    "You have done a lot of reading already ... it's always good to be open minded.

    I don't believe the WTS was started to make money. I think like many other groups around the time it was founded they all were probably quite earnest (many came from the same root teachings / millerism).

    But eventually once any organization grows big enough it creates structure and control and people want position and authority and before you know it you have a high control religion even though it's possible that no one planned it as such.

    An organization takes on a life of it's own and is determined to grow and survive, sometimes acting counter to the opinions of many within it. There was a UK MP who wrote a great article on the subject which I'll try and find." - Simon

    Yep, I've read nearly every thread on the last 25 pages of this subforum. It's quite interesting and I love feasting on knowledge that's new to me.

    "I once felt the same way. However think about this. These men are treated like the Pharaohs of old. They are living gods among millions of devoted JWs. At the very least they are treated as rock stars. Even their "helpers" they send to the conventions are given special attention. I've been out a long time but when I was active the GB members were not as prominent as they are now. These GB get to be TV evangelists and can now spread their non-sense at a push of a button. These Princes of Christ use the donations to enrich their lives. Do they get to drive in porsches? Perhaps not yet but don't be fooled that they don't use the money to travel where they please, eat what they want, and wear whatever suits they choose. And there has been no focus on these men's wifes. I wonder what they own in their bethel homes and what their wife's own in jewellery." - adjusted knowledge

    That makes sense to me.

  • Apognophos
    Apognophos

    Welcome! It's true that the Society's arguments against evolution are dubious and facile. They serve well enough for those who want to keep believing in the religion, though.

    On the subject of the organization and on mental issues among Witnesses, I think the two are basically one and the same. The personality of an organization is derived from the founder/leader and trickles down through levels of management. So you have to look at the top and ask yourself what sort of people have led the organization and picked their successors.

    The most important were probably Russell (a practicer of numerology, and a celibate though married), Rutherford (an angry, cynical contrarian and egomaniac), Knorr (a cold businessman, also another married celibate), and Franz (a very aloof man who inherited Russell's flair for numerology; a life-long bachelor).

    Since the organization is a high-control group (i.e., anti-individual), its followers are expected to adopt somewhat uniform personalities, with an emphasis on subjugating the self and following orders, and holding beliefs which reflect the personalities of the leaders. How could anything healthy come from such an organization? It's no wonder that born-ins are a weird bunch of people. That's besides the fact that the conspiracy-theory folks and assorted societal misfits are drawn to the religion as converts.

  • OneEyedJoe
    OneEyedJoe

    Welcome aboard! Your post echoes many of my own feelings on the org.

    If you're interested in the topic ( which it seems that you are) you should do some more research on cosmology, astrophysics, and evolution. You'll find that not only is the improbability of something insufficient to prove it didn't/couldn't happen, but the universe's existence in its present state is not nearly as unlikely as the creationists would have you believe.

    As for your bulleted points, there is definitely some level of monetary scam to the org, and the GB and others definitely benefit from the many scams that they're running. They benefit materially, they get to travel the world and have their healthcare provided for them. They have absolutely no concern for their future as they will have their every need taken care of until the day that they die. This is a level of security and stability that the rest of us could only dream of, and is certainly undeserved by these men who create nothing of value for society - indeed they do little more than destroy lives.

    Is the money the reason the cult came into existence? Probably not. Pastor Russell did fall into temptation pretty early on selling his miracle wheat and other scams - so there was definitely a monetary motivation for him. Rutherford continued this and lived quite extravagantly, he seems to me to have known exactly what he was doing. After Rutherford, the WTS had so much momentum and was run by men who themselves were indoctrinated into the cult so at this point it exists merely to continue its existence.

    100% agree - the Bible is not from any supreme being.

    As for your assertion that anyone who believes 100% is mentally deficient - I would suggest that you educate yourself on cult mind control and undue influence. Very smart people can become indoctrinated into a cult very easy when they're vulnerable. There are many here who are quite intelligent but were, at one time, 100% believers.

    I hope you stick around, you'll likely find lots of useful information and great folks to help you in your journey. There are a few nutjobs here too, so take opinions with a gain of salt. I suspect you'll do fine. Best of luck to you in your journey!

  • scotoma
    scotoma

    Most people stay in volunteer based organizations for fraternity and a social life.

    Lately more options are being presented for social networking on the internet. Even this website has its meet-ups (mini-conventions).

    The motives of the rank and file of volunteer organizations cluster around sharing common experiences.

    Kids that were raised as JW's and left still seek each other to hang out and swap stories about the crappy assembly food (in some cases excellent assembly food), parties, getting chewed out for underage drinking etc.

    However, there are the hard-core fanatics who are in the organization for power, glory, privilege, platform time. These are the ass holes. They are basically authoritarian personalities that are closed minded and have never had an orginal thought - never taken a risk in their entire lives.

    The vast majority of members and leaders alike subscribe to the basic teachings but they diverge on what they find rewarding.

    Those who are in for social reasons will leave when they develop more interesting social options.

    Those who are in for power will leave when they lose out in a power struggle. You will see some of these on this site trying to bully and push others around as if they were still King Elders.

  • rebel8
    rebel8

    IIRC, Bro. Russell did start out selling publications, and calling it sales. Not sure that really matters at this point. The org does make a lot of money and does not really use it to do good.

    Congratulations on waking up so early in life. You've got less scars than many of us. You have so much of your life ahead of you.

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