The fight about the corpse of Moses

coalize

Hello,

The new Watchtower, 15th February 2015, p6 §6, say :

The Bible writer Jude recorded an example from Jesus’ prehuman existence. (Read Jude 9.) As Michael the archangel, Jesus “had a difference with the Devil” and “was disputing” with that wicked one. The issue involved “Moses’ body.” Recall that after Moses died, Jehovah buried the body in an unknown location. (Deut. 34:5, 6) Perhaps the Devil wanted to use Moses’ remains to promote false worship. Whatever evil purpose the Devil had in mind, Michael took a courageous stand.

I don't want to come back here to the debate of Jesus = Michael, who was already treated very great here : http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/179503/1/I-need-some-good-sriptures-reasoning-to-refute-Jesus-3d-Michael-Archangel

No, my issue is about the fact that Jude talk about that event, like if everybody at who he was speaking, was aware about this fight. Like if this fight between Michael and Satan was known by all the first christians, and was part of their belief.

Or, perhaps something escaped me, but I don't know nothing about this fight. And, as I can see GB don't know much more.

Then, what's this story of fight? Why the first christians was aware about that event, and not us?

And, It's not the only thing surprising in Jude, I just read again right now because of this issue. I notice in Jude 14,15, that Jude is speaking about a prophecy of Enoch, that I don't know nothing about neither. But that will be another subject!

raymond frantz

It has also been supposed that Jude is quoting an apocryphal book that contained this account, and that Jude means to confirm that the account is true. Origen (c. 185–254), an early Christian scholar and theologian, mentions the book “The Assumption of Moses” as extant in his time, containing this very account of the contest between Michael and the devil about the body of Moses. That book, now lost, was a Jewish Greek book, and Origen supposed that this was the source of the account in Jude.

http://www.gotquestions.org/Michael-Satan-Moses.html#ixzz3LIvYEoCu

http://jwdoctrine.com/michael-fought-satan-moses-body/

coalize

Oh! Thank you for the very interresting links!

It has also been supposed that Jude is quoting an apocryphal book that contained this account

Very strange ! An inspired apostle quoting an apocryphal book ?

Jude didn't know this book was apocryphal? Because he was inspired by God, it would mean that God himself didn't know that book was apocryphal?

Two things are possible then : Or the missing book wasn't apocryphal, or the book of Jude is apocryphal!

Then if this missing book wasn't apocriphal, why God let a part of his Godly Words been lost ?

And if Jude is apocryphal, why God let a part of his Godly Words been false ?

Listener

The opinion of the WTBTS is that Jude isn't quoting from the Book of Enoch. They suggest that the writer of the Book of Enoch may have been quoting from the book of Jude or that both writers could have been quoting from a third source.

coalize

The opinion of the WTBTS is that Jude isn't quoting from the Book of Enoch. They suggest that the writer of the Book of Enoch may have been quoting from the book of Jude

But that doesn't explain one second why the christians was already aware about the fight when Jude talked about that

or that both writers could have been quoting from a third source.

But that doesn't explain why the third source is lost! And it doesn't answer at all at the two questions I asked.

But we're used now with the WTBTS-explanations! :)

Listener

Coalize, it is good that you question this. I am intrigued by the story as well. As an aside, it is also not know with any certainty as to what happened to Enoch and Elijah after death. The bible says this about them -

And Enoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him(Genesis 5:24).

Then it happened, as they continued on and talked, that suddenly a chariot of fire appeared with horses of fire, and separated the two of them; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven (2 Kings 2:11).

It would seem that Moses, Elijah and Enoch did not go to heaven as the bible says only Jesus had been sent there after his death

No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven (John 3:13).

It has been speculated that these men may be part of God's plan to use two of them as the 'two witnesses' spoken of in Revelation.

So getting back to your discussion about the fight between Michael and Satan regarding the body of Moses my guess is that the WTBTS is unable to come up with any logical explanation without a total revision of it's understanding of death (the spirit/soul), heaven and other places of spiritual abode.

TTWSYF

Michael disputed with Satan over the body of Moses while equals in heaven? Yet on earth, as Jesus. Michael has authority over everything that God made?

Doesn't add up...

just saying

coalize

WTBTS is unable to come up with any logical explanation without a total revision of it's understanding of death (the spirit/soul), heaven and other places of spiritual abode.

To not have to handle with this kind of revision, i'm sure they will prefer to put an issue on the list of the canonical books they accept, than to change something in their dogma. Like that they'll be able to explain, why Paul is talking about Jannes and Jambres too..

But they can't... Because if they accept new books or taking away another from the WTBTS-agreed-canonical-books, then they will be forced to change their dogma by the way!

They will continue to juggle standing on an egg...

Crazyguy

There is a quote from Jesus being like or greater then Solomon when it came to dealing with demons. This also comes from another book thats about Solomon that was not Canonized..

Apognophos

Can you tell me where in the Bible is says that about Jesus, Crazyguy? I can't find it.

The fight about the corpse of Moses

Share this