Thank you for posting this. I could have lost my son due to my stupidity. Thank goodness for the "superior authorities". My wife and I have mourned greatly over the last two years while our child has been undergoing treatment. I shudder to think how much worse my family would be now had it not been for them. This is a sick cult that carries much blood guilt and has others do their dirty work like Charles Manson did. I am grateful to be free and will do what I can to hopefully help others do the same.
This idea might not be new, but does a website like this exist?
by ILoveTTATT 27 Replies latest jw friends
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ILoveTTATT
Wow Azor so sorry to hear... Thankfully the authorities in most cases now can save babies and teenagers... but I am apalled at how many times the JW's are on the news and have been on the news, historically, because of this ONE reason!!
I have at least 49 news stories now, and I have only done two archival websites!! The "trove" has almost 180 stories, JUST FROM NEWSPAPERS IN AUSTRALIA, from 1945 to 2013...
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ILoveTTATT
I guess the story of that boy in Australia who was 17 and refused a BT was history repeating itself. An almost identical case, in 1961:
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ILoveTTATT
This is what I have from just two sources:
Name, Age at death, place where they were from:
Woman 63 UK Woman Michigan Joshua McAuley 15 UK Allison Mallender 44 UK Emma Gough 22 UK Stephen Jehu 1 Australia Sara Cyrenne 12 Ontario Frederick Charles Garthe 54 Australia Elizabeth Burgers 28 Australia Avril Stevens 24 Australia Veliza Humphries 37 UK Woman 44 Australia Nicola Gleff 35 UK Girl 8 Honduras Anita Brown 25 California Adeline Kweku Keh 40 UK Rachel Ridell 32 New Zealand Juliana Bonfim da Silva 13 Brazil -
ABibleStudent
Hi ILoveTTATT, I love your idea of a database. I have two suggestions. Enter both state/province and country, so that searches could be done both at local and federal levels. Enter hyperlinks to references or the reference's title, source, and date published, so that additional research could easily be done.
Keep up the good work!
BTW have your parent's critical thinking skills improved?
Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,
Robert
P.S. - Have you asked Barbara Anderson about hosting your database on www.watchtowerdocuments.com or www.AD1914.com?
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flamegrilled
I applaud the intention completely, but I fear that it can never have any real value.
The % of cases in which the lack of blood treatment is the fully proven cause of death would be close to zero I think.
The listings in the database would have to figure out how much of a part the policy played in the outcome. This would be so subjective if it included an honest representation of all the variables it would be hard to figure out the real impact of JW policy. I think that is the underlying problem that Shilmer, AJWRB and others have consistently faced in trying to represent the facts.
To be meaningful the database would also have to include ALL the outcomes for refusals of treatment - even the positive ones - and I think this data would be impossible to gather. If you disagree with this last statement then bear in mind that if you take the risk to reject any form of blood then there may be an increased chance of reduced complications if you survive. I think this is generally accepted.
Don't get me wrong. I am firmly against the JW blood policy being enforced on its members and I really wish the impact were measurable in some significant way. But it is simply not like that.
This is what allows the GB to keep maintaining the pressure under the radar. If the impact was truly known then it would be much harder for them to hide their convoluted policies.
If someone could show me where I am wrong I would consider donating time to research this and contributing to the project.
FG
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Apognophos
I agree with flamegrilled. When we consider all the stories of Witnesses who survived with incredibly low blood counts, it reminds us that we don't have the ability to say how big of a factor blood is in the deaths that do occur.
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ILoveTTATT
Here's my best response to your objection, flamegrilled:
I strongly believe that everything can be placed into a bell curve: intelligence, height, how fast you can run, how long you'll live, etc...
And I think that survival levels with blood or without blood can also be placed in a bell curve.
Only one human in recorded history has lived past 120. The life expectancy is 85. Similarly, only a few humans can run 100 meters in less than 10 seconds, most run it in 20 seconds, only a few humans are above 2.50m in height, average is 1.80m, etc...
Only a few humans can survive, without harm, the levels of hemoglobin that some JW's have survived, such as 2.0 g/dl. The lowest accepted "safe" threshold is currently 7.0g/dl. JW's proved that the threshold of 10 was too high, and that it was acceptably safe to bring it to 7.0
But there are hundreds of other factors and I am not a doctor and I could be completely wrong here.
The many reports in the media show that you CAN attribute at least a higher, sometimes MUCH higher probability of death without blood, and you can MOST CERTAINLY argue that to transfuse is better than not to in cases of severe, acute blood loss (such as a car accident), or cases of severe anemia.
I read in some of the reports that doctors estimated XX% probability of survival with blood, and X% without. In one case it was 90% vs 5%. So it would be tough to argue that the refusal of blood was THE cause of death, the cause of death was the previous condition, but it can be argued that the lack of blood precipitated the death. -
ILoveTTATT
ABibleStudent,
My parents have not really improved in their critical thinking skills, but we are at peace. I have been the one that has improved, I don't mention the JW subject and have constant communication with them, for whatever excuse...
About the database: I agree with placing country and state in separate columns, that would make it easier to search. I have in the database the hyperlinks to the news sources, unfortunately, the news sources I use are repositories and only the people who have access to my university library can see them...
They can probably try looking for the name online and find some "free and open" sources.
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ABibleStudent
Hi ILoveTTATT, I'm glad that your parents have decided to ignor at least one WTBTS doctrine.
ILoveTTATT - I have in the database the hyperlinks to the news sources, unfortunately, the news sources I use are repositories and only the people who have access to my university library can see them...
Does your database/repository have to reside in your university library? Information can easily be saved as .pdf files to insure that it is available in the future. If you ask the owners, I feel that your database and repository could reside on www.jwfacts.com, www.watchtowerdocuments.com, www.AD1914.com, etc.
Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,
Robert