After Six Months of Hiatus, I can tell you the Watchtower is Starting to Crumble Faster than you think!

by SanLuisObispoTruthSeeker 63 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Theredeemer

  Any perceived attack might be seen by Jws as the great tribulation. However, an official branding by the Org would be unlikely.

  There is one thing we all here need to accept. This religion is not going away. Even if the GB came out and said "Well folks its all BS!!" there would still be some who carry on as if nothing. Hell, there are still people who are Branch Davidians (David Koresh's cult). Unless every witness killed themselves like in Jonestown, this religion is here to stay.

  Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hindu and countless other religions that have survived for thousands of years all started out as cults. Im not saying the JWs are going to be around that long but as long as Christianity is around so will its offshoots. These cults have learned to morph and made necessary changes to become mainstream and popular despite legal or financial troubles. They are no longer "cults" by strict satndars but they are very much cults if the members allows. The JWs are trying to make the leap to mainstream. Within 20 years this religion will have a new GB and who knows the radical changes they will bring.

  What I hope to see is what we have seen with other religions, their members not taking the church too seriously. Reforms, acceptance; these are the things I want to see. Of coarse I would love to see this religions (and all religions) demise but as long as there are people willing to let others guide their life and morals there will always be religion and, in this case, Jehovahs Witnesses.
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  skeeter1

  I think the Governing Body wants to be jailed for not following court orders to give an out-of-court deposition. The JW brass are going to try to state that as religious leaders in another state, they had nothing to do with the crime that occurred. But, this is a false belief becuase these are civil cases. And, in civil cases, discovery can be pretty broad and wide. The trial court judge has discretion to discern who is and who is not within discovery of evidence's reach. Further, as the head men to this organization with a history of sexual abuse, I would see that asking the religious leader(s) about the policies and procedures they set down would be of value to both sides. Thus, I believe this is why the court judges have been ordering Losch to give out-of-court depositions in preparation of trial.

  Or, I think the Governing Body does not want to testify becuase they are invovled in setting this policy. Anything the Governing Body says in a civil court deposition, can be held against them as a prior statement in a criminal proceeding. Yes, the Governing Body (and all elders, ms) can be held criminally liable for the sexual abuse under an accessory-to-the-crime/aiding and abetting type theory if they can be linked.

  Or, I think the Governing Body really thinks that the End is near. They are either going to die or let Jehober kill the worldly judicial systems and attorneys who persecute the WTS. Naaaaaaahhhhh, can't be right. Why? The WTS is building new buildings that are going to last 100+ years.

  My $.02.

  Skeeter
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  OneEyedJoe

  The WTS has the money now to pay off law suits out of court and hush the incident from the publics eye as well the body of JWS.

  Certainly if these law suits were to occur back in the 1960's or70's, they would have produced some major damage to the organization.

  ....... but this is not the 1960's

  How much money do they have laying around? The last case out of california left them $13.5 Million poorer. It only takes 75 such settlemenets to be over a billion in damages. Obviously they can start selling more KHs and make more money grabs on the members, but the more they do that the more JWs will be left asking questions. Also I wouldn't be surprised if the money-grabs increased well before they actually get close to running out of money. Either due to greed/arrogance of not wanting to use their slush-fund up paying for pedophiles or inorder to prepare for the expected future suits.

  Considering that some of these cases are going as far back as the 80's and they still haven't changed the policies that are getting them in trouble, they've potentially got 30 years or more worth of lawsuits in the queue. Now they're stuck in a tough situation - change the rules and be seen capitulating to 'satan's viscious attacks' or they can take a hard line and keep getting sued. Changing the policy might even be seen as an admission of guilt and cause a short-term upswing in judgements against the cult (I'm no lawyer, so I'm pretty much talking out my ass on that one).

  I will say I don't see this cult disappearing anytime soon, but their decline is only going to accelerate from here, quite possibly in a dramatic way.
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  sloppyjoe2

  @AndersonInfo, nothing would make me happier than if I was WRONG lol. I just think emotions get in the way of reality. Tax free money is still tax free. The catholic church survived and so will the JWs. When dateline aired it's show on JWs and child abuse so long ago it had no impact. JWs dismissed it as propaganda and lies. In any case a year from now I will be happy to eat crow if I am wrong.
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  sloppyjoe2

  And to put into perspective the constant speculation of the organization's demise, here are some posts that have been made over the years.

  2001

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/13054/1/WTS-predicts-its-own-demise-in-11-15-Watchtower

  2003

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/experiences/59773/1/Could-Humor-help-the-WTBTS-Demise

  2006

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/115456/1/The-WBTS-Accomplices-To-Its-Own-Demise

  2010

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/193046/1/Social-Networking-Media-to-Hasten-the-Demise-of-Watchtower

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/202696/1/DAY-of-DOOM-Armageddon-Comes-for-the-WatchTower-April-5-2011

  2011

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/216435/1/Do-you-sense-that-the-Watchtower-will-implode

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/211776/1/WTBTS-DAYS-ARE-NUMBERED

  This took me five minutes. There are many more out there and many more to come. I understand why people want the watchtower to end but as you can see for the last 13 years there are multiple reasons why it was going away and yet it's still here.
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  JWdaughter

  The problem for JWs now is that with their very low retention of born-ins (who as children of entrenched JW families) the people most likely to have been abused are also the ones most likely to have left, few of them were not impacted by their deaparture from the org. For whatever reason that they ultimately left, too bad for the org., the family damage and the social isolation creates people who have some degree of well placed anger with the society. And a lot of them will focus that like a laser when they realize that they are no less significant a person than one who was abused with the implied consent of the RC church diocese ($660 million judgement for 15 or so victims).

  Honestly, I think that $660 MILLION could likely impact the WT operations. That was one diocese, not the entire RC church.
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  Separation of Powers

  Just for the record....I do not believe that the JW organization will disappear.....I know many on this forum are hopeful, but I am a realist in that regard. My comments relate to the impact that is being felt and after the Conti case is decided that impact may well be more than you and I could imagine. Financial stability is not assured. The downturn in the world economy decimated many organizations, I believe the request or demand for congregations to hand over their surplus is indicative of two things, 1) the organization is expecting more lawsuits 2) the organization is experiencing financial hardship. This is my opinion, nothing more.

  As for its endurance, I believe it will survive because it is run by some very shrewed people....and SOOO many people want to believe in something, particularly those who already have a predisposition to a persecution complex.

  The original post addresses what the poster believes...namely that things are disintegrating....I believe that to a great extent. Its is like a landslide and we are seeing it break away. The mountain is underminded by the erosion of love, regard, compassion, integrity...all the things that many of us held so dear as part of this group. I think that the mountain will remain, but what kind of mountain is the question. Mt. Everest is almost 30,000 feet in height. In the US a mountain is typically considered to be a landform that stretches past 1000 ft....in the UK, I believe it is 2000 ft. There is tremendous disparity between what one considers a mountain and the highest form of a mountain. The org may stand as a mountain of a religion for some after all this expected erosion, but it won't be a Mt. Everest.
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  Finkelstein

  Lets put things into clear perspective in that the WTS. has billion(s) dollars in assets around the world.

  .

  These pedophile cases do more harm toward the public image of the organization than putting a financial strain on it.

  Willful thinking isn't necessary thinking within reality.

  .
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  OneEyedJoe

  sloppyjoe -

  I totally agree that there's certainly a bit of wishful thinking and confirmation bias going on here, but I'm not aware of any previous financial threat to the cult that could potentially reach past the Billion dollar mark. This is, afterall, a business we're dealing with, and a great financial threat like they've got in the pipeline with all the child abuse cases could well be the thing that makes a measurable blow to the cult. It certianly won't disappear, but if the persecution comes and is focused solely on the JWs, and not on the other religions of the world first, that's gotta cause some doubts in the minds of any who have been paying attention to the cult's end-times script.
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  sloppyjoe2

  @OneEyedJoe I understand what you are saying. But I think the only real impact financially would be if the Org loses at the US supreme court. They have free legal counsel for starters. They have taken many cases all the way up there and have won a considerable amount. At the same time they just took in a billion dollars in real estate sales all while still collecting funds. By the time they get to the point that there may be a financial blow it would not surprise me at all that they have money already set aside to pay out.

  The only thing that would cause doubt in the minds of JWs is if the JW religion were shut down while all the rest were not. Other than that it is just persecution from Satan. I already discussed these cases with my JW mom who is an extreme JW. She cast it off and shrugged her shoulders and threw it under the imperfect men excuse. This is even telling her the problem is that the branch made the calls on how to handle it, not the elders. Belief is a powerful thing and many people just cannot let go.

  The most brilliant thing I believe the org has done, is managing to convince JWs that the light gets brighter and in doing so they can change at will. Even with some unexpected court losses they can easily explain it as prophetic. They will deliver you up to councils, Matthew 10:17 comes to mind. When posts like these come up I often wonder if the OP is still attending and around JWs. I do and I am, and the ideas that are presented are no where close to what I see and experience.