Looking for others that maybe gay or questioning

by dewey79 21 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  fulltimestudent

  dewey79: So I am the weird case that I still believe in the Jehovah's Organization.

  That's OK, but I wanted to mention something that is weird about the imagined "Biblical" attitudes to male2male sex. And you just may like to give it some thought.

  You've likely read the words of David, as he reflects the death of Jonathon. Its at 2 Samuel 1:26:

  I grieve for you, Jonathan my brother; you were very dear to me.
  Your love for me was wonderful, more wonderful than that of women.

  Now, as I remember it, the JWs explain the love between Jonathon and David as agape. But that's not so, the word used is 'ahabah, which Strong's lexicon says means (in English):

  1. love

     1. human love for human object

        1. of man toward man

        2. of man toward himself

        3. between man and woman

        4. sexual desire

  2. God's love to His people

  I suggest, in view of the context, which has David using love for a woman as a comparison, that the word was written to express the meaning implicit in 1.4, that is, physical love between David and Jonathon.

  I know that this becomes a very difficult thought, in view of other biblical texts, but since the Bible is made up of so many different documents, we are likely seeing an extract from some other document that may have been redacted into the document now known as 2 Samuel.

  But let's attempt to see, not the end of David and Jonathon's relationship (As in Jonathon's death) but the beginning of their love story.

  1 Samuel 17: 42, describes how attractive David was. And with that in mind, now take a look at ch. 18: 1-4,

  After David had finished talking with Saul, Jonathan became one in spirit with David, and he loved him as himself. 2 From that day Saul kept David with him and did not let him return home to his family. 3 And Jonathan made a covenant with David because he loved him as himself. 4 Jonathan took off the robe he was wearing and gave it to David, along with his tunic, and even his sword, his bow and his belt.

  How, or why, this love story got into the Bible, is something I cannot explain. But there were many ancient love stories involving two men, explore those if you want to understand the culture of that time. But why not start with this Bible example.
• 

  Giordano

  You were born the way you are. JW's will not accept you unless you are a non practicing Gay person.

  The WTBTS does not have the truth they were founded and controlled by two people Russell and Rutherford who's entire body of work is no longer in print....... in other words they didn't teach the truth then and still don't. The society has their own version of truth which changes year by year.

  Check out jwfacts.com to educate yourself.

  Believing in a god is one thing.......... worshiping the way the WTBTS wants you to is another.

  If you believe God and Jesus exist then you believe they love you. Wrap yourself in that love and be a good and decent person. God apparently doesn't hate Gay folks because they are being born every minute. If you need to believe find a church that believes in you as a gay person and can give you the spiritual life you sound like you want.
• 

  dewey79

  Thanks for Your comments.

  My love for Jehovah is greater than anything. The one thing that I struggle the most about is how I think about certain things. I did not grow up a Jehovah's Witness. I grew up as a Catholic. When I didn't like that I became Protestant and I gave me some fulfilment. But every time I went to church it was the same thing and I still wasn't satisfied.

  Then I met Jehovah witnesses. They open up for Bible for me to better understand and to take away all the doctrines they're not biblical. (I used my own Bible) So after I was baptized and that's another story, I disassociated myself from the organization. After about two years, I started studying the Bible again and came to realize that whatever fault that they may have. It's the truth.

  Homosexuality is a whole another issue. Reading Romans 1:27, you cannot come to a conclusion that God is against homosexuality. Going as far back as verse 18 and reading it in context. The key passage here is 25 and 26. It was the fact that they were idol worship and of created things.

  So I'm not here in the discussion forums to argue about doctrine or who is right or wrong, what I am looking for is people that are in the “Truth” (and maybe struggling) and that believe what I believe or close to it. I know about the exgayjw movement and find it bitterness to no end. I’m not judging but again have a unique prospective on things. Maybe I love Jehoavh’s organization more than I think or have respect to it to a certain degree.

  I believe the governing body has good intentions, however they are also human and are not perfect. So are other Jehovah witnesses they too are not perfect. Other religions Catholics, Protestants, Presbyterians, and assemblies of God are all phrophecied incorrectly. they are also not peferct either.
  I hope I explained myself better. If you would want to chat, feel free to PM me.
• 

  breakfast of champions

  I know that things have changed since the last time I went. But I believe in most of the teachings.

  First thing I asked myself when I started on my "journey" was "How do I know what I know?"

  Little did I know at that time, that this is probably one of the most important questions a human can ask themselves.
• 

  GrreatTeacher

  True, they're not perfect, but the rub is that they claim they are. They claim they are the only true religion because only they are doing everything right.

  You can't claim to be the only true religion whose leaders are inspired by God (a high standard) and then in the next breath claim imperfection as the reason they got things wrong. And, oops, sorry about that, folks

  So, if they admit to being imperfect, then there's nothing inspired coming from them that needs to be obeyed at all costs!
• 

  whatif

  Try this site.....

  www.witnesses.plus.com
• 

  LisaRose

  I get what you believe and why, but it's very puzzling to me. You believe in an organization that rejects you on a very basic level. Its so far beyond the fact that they are imperfect, they think you are depraved, unnatural, you could never be a witness in good standing and be sexually and emotionally fulfilled. Why are you OK with that?

  I used to believe the watchtower taught the truth about the bible, even though it was hard for me personally (not gay, but bad marriage), I stuck with it, to the point it was killing my heart and soul. I finally was struck by the thought that a loving God could not possibly get any joy out of my misery, that this situation wasn't right. It was what helped me break free. The many things I have learned since then, the lies that the Watchtower tells only confirmed that I was right.

  I lived 28 years in that marriage. I would so hate for you to waste your life like that. The fact that they have it so wrong about homosexuality should be the clue that you need to tell you that they are wrong about sooooo much else. The bad chronology, 1914, lies about that, doctrine flip flops, protecting pedophiles, it goes on and on. I converted at a young age, I get it, it seemed so right, but it's not. You owe it to yourself to investigate what they teach, it's not at all what they make it out to be. I was told I wouldn't have time for a career in this system of things. I am sixty! Yet they are still saying this to young ones. Think. About. It.

  Why deny yourself the possibility of a loving, committed relationship? Why have to hide what you are? All for a heartless organization that uses mind control to keep you enslaved.

  Please, please, please look into the history and practices of this religion, you won't be sorry.
• 

  Coded Logic

  It took me a long time to realize there was nothing wrong with me. That despite what the WT taught, I wasn't wicked or evil or "just wanting to sin." I was looking to have a real relationship in which I could be honest about who I was - a gay man. And I realized I could never do that while a JW. They would never accept me for who I am.

  When I read Romans I came to the same conclusion you did. The scripture only applied to the annointed class.

  .

  After fading I wondered, if this isn't the "true" religion then what is? The idea of searching for a new church seemed like a near impossible task. How many would I have to go to - to find the "right" one. I decided that was not the correct way to do it. That I should first look at what the Bible really says and then go from there. It was then that a very subtle idea entered my brain. An idea so simple and basic I had nearly overlooked it.

  I realized that I should first verify the Bible is in fact God's word. This was a no brainer. I had been taught the evidence was overwhelming but I had never really taken the time to lay it all out. So I wrote down a list of the reasons why I knew the Bible was true:

  1.) Fufilled Prophecy

  2.) Scientific knowledge unknown to man at the time

  3.) Internal Consistancy

  4.) Moral Authority

  And I resolved to fill in the exact scriptures I could point to incase I ever came across an atheist or a non-believer. I thought it would be an hour or two worth of research . . .

  Six months later I had exhausted every scripture I knew, ever publication of the watchtower, every christian apologetic website, and every video I could find on Youtube to support these four basic premises. Not only could I not find evidence to support them - I found mountains of evidence that disproved them. The Bible has failed prophecy (the city of Tyre is not "uninhabited to time indefinite"), it has plain gotten science wrong (Genesis has the Sun and stars created AFTER vegitation on the earth), it is internaly inconsistant (Matthew has Jesus born before 3BC while Luke has Jesus born after 7AD), and it is morally wrong (God puts himself before the well being of his people every single time).

  There are over 30,000 denominations of Christianity in the United States alone. All of which claim to follow the Bible. This would mean, that even if there was a "true" Christianity, the Bible has been used to mislead more people than it has managed to leed to the truth. And, while they all can't be right - they all can be wrong.

  The Bible was written by men. And there's nothing devine or supernatural about it. It's no different than the Quran, or the Bhagavad Gita, the Hermetica, or any other so called "Holy Book".
• 

  LoveUniHateExams

  It took me a long time to realize there was nothing wrong with me - me too, Coded Logic.

  WTS may say that it's ok to be gay, as long as you don't 'commit immorality'. Although I happen to be heterosexual, I imagine it can't be as simple as that. If you continued in 'the truth' you wouldn't be allowed normal feelings of being in love. If you stayed 'chaste' but kissed another man this would also be wrong. You would be made to feel bad simply for having normal feelings and doing normal things that everyone does - gay and hetero alike.

  If it's your choice to stay in because you genuinely believe, then ok. But re. homosexuality you can't listen to JWs only. Surely you can see that it would be unfair and wrong because of the ridiculous anti-homosexual bias of the witnesses.
• 

  fulltimestudent

  For what it's worth Dewey79, I ask the question, what is wrong with being gay?

  There was a recent diatribe by a governing body member against gays? But the only difference between gay people and those of who claim to be sexually "straight," is who they sleep with at night. Some may be bad, but most are good people.

  My GAYXJW friend, a good friend btw, is one of the best people you could hope to meet. If he was still a witness and he and his male partner were accepted in the congregation, I'm sure they would be regarded as one of the finest families in the congregation. My friend is chairman of the owner's corporation for his apartment block, a job no one else wants. Its a voluntary position (no pay) and all you get is winges etc from "straight" people. His partner (again without pay) does all the gardening and manages to keep a pleasant environment around the building.

  Another example. The sad murder of a cafe manager (Tori Jackson) in the recent siege by a mentally disturbed Iranian refugee in Sydney. This young man has been universally praised, both from the way he did his work and the way he conducted himself. Everyone who knew him, has nothing but praise for him, and it seems he gave his life to allow others the chance to escape.

  And yet, he was gay. That a JW/GB member could say such stupid things about good gay people would not inspire respect in me (anymore) for that organisation.

  It is not hard to find good gay people. The University lecturer who inspired me to spend the end of my life in (real) study was gay, and respected by his peers and students alike.

  Something is wrong in an organisation that cannot recognise goodness, just because these good people love someone of the same sex.

  Here's Tori Jackson's partner speaking of his sadness at his lover's death.

  http://www.9news.com.au/National/2014/12/19/06/18/Tori-Johnson-s-partner-says-flowers-are-best-way-to-remember-him

  and

  http://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/martin-place-siege-victim-tori-johnsons-partner-remembers-him-as-humble-generous-man-who-loved-his-family-friends/ar-BBgWAw4?ocid=mailsignout