Damned if they do, Damned if they don't (page 4)

Ignoranceisbliss

I don't need to apologize for hating your God. F?$& him. He is trying his hardest to destroy my beautiful family. I see no harm in my venting on this website.

dhlpcjw

To the people with this attitude: What exactly is it that you WANT the Society to do?

Personally I would like to see them admit their past mistakes. All of them. Then beg for forgiveness and pray they aren't held accountable for all their blood guilt before the earthly authorities or even heavenly(if God exists). If they are truely as humble and discreet as they claim this shouldn't be a problem. But no, it's easier to blame the stupid, impatient publishers.

So since they are incapable of this I want them to keep mishandling their funds until they're out on the street trying to trade their pinky rings for a hot meal.

Finkelstein

FusionTheism

jwfacts,

Do you apply the same reasoning and logic to the government or to your friends or relatives?

Democratic Governments are set in position of doing whats best for the people they serve and toward creating rules or laws which can be eventually change to better serve the people which they designated for.

So essentially the people make the evolving changes, not necessarily the top governmental leaders.

The WTS has always been a rigidly dogmatic theocracy from the top down.

No change comes forward except from the top leaders and mostly in support of themselves and the organization that they represent and their virtuous self image as being the chosen ones, that image in itself holds more importance than any living human being including the lives of innocent children.

This lying corruption has got to stop for the sake of humanity living today and out of respect to those who lost their lives from the ignorance and corruption this organization has propagated in the past.

Pete Zahut

Damned if they do, Damned of they don't

I understand what you are saying as I've thought the same thing myself at times.

All I know is that first of all they have never come out directly and said we were absolutely wrong about doctrine (a) (b) (c) and we didn't get any of that information from Jehovah and what we are telling you now isn't from him either. From now on we are to be looked upon as men who are trying their best to follow the bible as best we can and are here to help you do the same. I could forgive them if they did something like that.

They have never been honest about why they do things such as make big changes in they way they do things. They try to pass them off as loving provisions from Jehovah rather than as a way to fix a big problem they are trying to keep concealed.

They continue tricking people by making videos with very intentional subliminal messages aimed at children and weak minded individuals in an effort to get them to support their agenda and in the end, finance their celebrity lifestyles.

They have intentionally trained thousands of men to seek out, punish and destroy the lives of anyone who voice any of the aforementioned. They are given free license to delve into the personal affairs of those who come to them for guidance after making mistakes in their personal lives.

They condemn other religions for teaching falsehoods yet have done the same thing themselves from the very beginning.

Unlike the Catholics, they have never come out and formally apologized for the falsehoods and wrongdoings of those who went before them nor for the ones they taught or committed themselves. They have never apologized to the families of those whose lives were lost or to individuals whose lives ruined as a result of their bad decisions and misinterpretations or misapplication of certain bible texts, or from their being too proud to admit that they are regular humans who know no more than anyone else.

At this point nothing they can do can make up for what they've done to those who trusted them in the past. Because of the internet and sites like this one, (except for children) those who come into the religion from this point on, for the most part, can do so with open eyes knowing the history of the religion and their tract record. Children will be able to see them for what they are as soon as they are able to use a computer. If they choose to proceed or continue on with it, it's their own choice, they can do so knowing both sides of the picture . For the rest of us, the years of our lives are lost for good . No matter what changes or "improvements" are made, to us this organization can never be "the truth" again. They will never be more than just another misguided bunch of people who tricked us into trusting them.

DesirousOfChange

FUSION: Where is the "friendly and tolerant?"

We put up with your bullshit.

Simon hasn't banned you.

Some people give sincerely thought out replies rather than write you off as a troll.

Doc

DJS

Fusion,

Everything about your OP was wrongety wrong as Rebel8says. It clearly ranks as one of the worst I've seen on this site. You made broad brushed statements and accusations, none of which are supported by facts. And you wonder why we aren't friendly and tolerant? Learn to ask questions rather than make ridiculous assertions and accusations if you want friendly and tolerant.

The only thing that I find more pathetic than the premises of your OP is that there are at least 3 people on this site with less intelligence. I've really worked hard the past few months being a kinder and gentler DJS, but this OP deserves all of the ridicule it is receiving. The Dark Lords ended scholarship of ANY kind because it was biting them on the ass. They have made a history of blaming the rank and file for their own errors of prophecy. At best they hide contrition behind blame shifting weasel words rather than humbly admit they were wrong. And perhaps worst of all, they have systematically attempted to erase their mistakes by re-writing, deleting, editing and burning all of their mistakes.

Too bad for the Dark Lords the Internet will forever keep them alive. Had it not been for the "Net exposing their prophetic mishaps and blunders, they would have never even provided the half-assed 'admission'.

I suggest you stay on the site and learn before you continue posting such tripe.

FayeDunaway

Pete, I would 'like' your post 10 times if I could!

cultBgone

Fusion...only the sheeple/jws are damned if they do and damned if they don't. Think you mixed up your subjects here...

Viviane

If you condemn the Society for NOT changing, but then you also condemn them when they DO change in a positive way, what incentive or motive does that provide for the people at the Society to ever want to change for the better?

First, you make an error of omission, specifically not explaining what is better. How is the new better than the old? What metric are you using to make that claim and how is it objectively verifiable to others? How does it substantially change the life of Jehovah's Witnesses and their families for the better?

Also, what does that attitude look like to current Witnesses who are having doubts?
It probably looks to them like the Society has been correct in the way they describe apostates as bitter complainers who are never happy with anything the Society does.

This is the fallacy of presumption combined with a strawman. You provide no reason for making the presumption of how other people would view things. You provide no evidence for it and proceed to set an argument that you can easily knock down while attempting to make it look as if you are addressing a real issue.

And when they recently have admitted to errors and say they've been wrong in big ways in the past, some accuse them of having some secret conspiracy theory motive behind it.
To the people with this attitude: What exactly is it that you WANT the Society to do?

This is the only real meat in your post. You finally address the issue, but not for the reasons it needs to be addressed.

The reason it needs to be addressed is that they advertise they have the truth. They advertise that God gives it to them. When they make predictions and claims because they commune with God and then reverse those claims and predictions, it creates a very real issue with credibility. Was God lying to them? Were they talking to someone other than God? Were they making it up?

These questions are all important because they are just making claims about the future, they are using the justification of talking to God that affects people lives, their family, their financial status, their social status. It's important because if anyone publicly disagrees with these predicitions and rule and, often quite correctly, points out the lack of Biblical support or outright disagreement them, heavy sanctions are applied that can, quite literally, ruin a persons life.

So, rather than avoid the actual issue and use fallacies to do it, perhaps you would be better served by meditation upon the deep things, partaking of the meat rather than the milk.

azor

Fusion theism. They are damned either way as they have much blood on their hands. Have you lost a loved one to their insane blood policy or from a shunning induced suicide? I almost lost my young child because of this group.

I was a faithful true believer for most of my life. Pioneered, served at bethel, was an elder for nearly a decade. I bought it all hook line and sinker. My circumstances forced me to open my eyes to the cult this organization truly is. Due to not being exposed to the indoctrination on a regular basis because of my child's condition the double speak and manipulation became more and more apparent.

I get the sense that you are still regular at meetings and trying to see how you and perhaps others that are like minded can make it better from within. It is a fools errand. For goodness sake a member of their highest order couldn't do it. The birds are coming home to roost.

The jw cult must die. There is nothing it can do to make up for the damage it has left in its wake. Again much blood is on their heads.

Damned if they do, Damned if they don't

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