by Hidden-Window 44 Replies latest jw friends
If I were still a JW believer and an elder today, I would immediately resign.
The organization will not stand behind the local elders that follow instructions but wind up named in lawsuits for doing just that.
I think the lack of desire to reach out is the reason the GB said women should not be marrying the JW who did not make M.S..
It's not fair to suggest that it's all about wanting to climb the ladder. It's funny how many of you were MSes or elders and now you can only assign bad motives to the ones who are still in. There's still sincere brothers in there who feel that they're just doing what's expected of them: they fulfill their assignments and go out in service, then one day they're asked to be an MS, and they don't feel they can say "no"... years pass, and the same thing happens again, and now they're an elder. And they feel like they're pleasing Jehovah by helping the congregation. They're working hard for little reward, and they don't wear their title like a badge.
Personally, it seemed like a world of pain, and I saw no reason to work hard enough to meet the field service requirement just so that I could be made an MS. But I was rather self-centered. I can't claim credit for having known TTATT at the time, I just didn't want all the work and the interpersonal obligations.
Heh, this isn't too surprising. I was born JW and my father was a very zealous elder for many years. I was pretty much always told I would become an MS one day due to my Dad being an elder. I was baptized at 18 and then at 21 was asked to become a MS. Mind you I was living my "double-life" with having gay sex and suppyling booze for all JWs depsite thier age. The meeting in the back room was with our COBE, Secretary and my Dad! I totally felt it wasn't fair that he should be in there....I mean wouldn't that be a conflict of interest or something?? Anyhow, I of course said Yes to being an MS but that fell short about over a year and my "sins" started to be revleaed and I got DF'd at when I was 23.
Very honest answer there Apognophos and I am sure you are right that there are elders that are in it for the right reason.
Many of them have ended up here now.
Makes me glad Im a woman. I would have been chewed up by the system I think.
sylvief: feels good to say that;)
Yes it does. That's why I say it so often!
ADCMS:
Agreed. The irony for the WT is their claim to being different from the rest. And yet, the passage of time has the same effect on them.
Bobcat
A lot of young people have an innate Cost/Benefit analysis function. The costs of serving far outweigh the benefits.....you don't have to have a Masters in statistics to see that.
It's funny how many of you were MSes or elders and now you can only assign bad motives to the ones who are still in.
Or, maybe from the outside view now that's the takeaway from an honest re-assessment?
Personally, when I served as an MS, I was 50/50 (looking back from an outside-in perspective). Part of my reason for serving was I thought I was doing the right thing- what god wanted me to do. But I'd be dishonest if I said that the title and prestige, along with "privileges", were not also a strong motivating factor... maybe the bigger influence of the two motives.
I believe there are men with good motives who still serve. However, with WT's escalating focus on legalism and shelving of normal human compassion as part of the process of qualifying, the honest-hearted ones will find it more difficult to serve and find less satisfaction in their duties. The good men often have no desire to get in the game regardless of how much they are pressured otherwise.
I've known more than one good man who stepped down because he was hamstrung as an Elder to be the caring, helpful, compassionate man he desired to be and was, instead, finding greater conflict within his own conscience for maintaining the status quo of being a corporate enforcer. The contrast was simply too great between the way things were supposed to be and the way they really are.
When I was in, a lot of women wouldn't consider dating a man unless he was serving in some official capacity. On the flip side, having some sort of appointment could give a young man access to women he'd otherwise have no shot with. The incentive was such that a lot of young male JWs would seek the appointment even if they weren't fully invested in JWism.
In my experience the kids usually get married before they're old enough to be serioiusly considered as an MS (unless they're the super-zealous type that makes elder by 22). I suppose, though, that women marrying men that aren't at least an MS may be an issue, since it managed to make it's way into AMIII's zone visit talk. Though, by that logic, men wearing tight pants is also an issue in the org - trying to make sense of that talk is a bit of a crapshoot.
This was the general rule in my area. If you were a young man who (1) avoided getting into serious trouble with the elders (2) was regular at all meetings and (3) put in at least 10 hours a month in field service, you'd make ministerial servant by 20/21.
If you became a pionner straight out of high school, you'd make ministerial servant by 19. Even super dubs would not make elder until 25 (although I heard rumors of a few men here and there who were appointed at 24, but I never personally knew of any). But by that point, most JWs were either married or engaged. The crucial timeframe was 18-23. That's when the action happened.
I saw a fair amount of hypocrisy from my peers, guys who chased after "privileges" to get an in with certain girls, and almost as importantly, the girls families. If you weren't a pioneer, an MS, or at least on track for an appointment, you were at a serious disadvantage. I know because I lived through this.
I became a regular pionner at the age of 17. I graduated one year early from high school in order to focus on JW stuff with the ultimate goal of going to Bethel. Believe it or not, I was motivated by a sincere belief in the religion. Elders and elders' wives would go out of their way to introduce me to their daughters at assemblies. It was a feeling like none other. I felt like I was king of the world. A few years later my zeal had waned and I found it harder and harder to recapture that joy I once had for the religion.
I was publically reproved for drinking when I was 20 or 21. I can't remember the exact year anymore. In any event, I went from feeling like some giant stud to feeling like an outcast. My reputation had been destroyed. I began dating a girl a few years after my reproval and it was going great until her family found out I'd been reproved. You'd have thought her dauther was dating a drug-dealing, gang-banger with a felony conviction. It was awful.
Apog, what you said,
There's still sincere brothers in there who feel that they're just doing what's expected of them: they fulfill their assignments and go out in service, then one day they're asked to be an MS, and they don't feel they can say "no"... years pass, and the same thing happens again, and now they're an elder. And they feel like they're pleasing Jehovah by helping the congregation. They're working hard for little reward, and they don't wear their title like a badge.
Personally, it seemed like a world of pain, and I saw no reason to work hard enough to meet the field service requirement just so that I could be made an MS.
Yes, I totally agree. Check my post above, and consider yourself hugged. (in an old-enough-to-be-your-mother, or at least your older sisteer, way). :))
It's not just the women who get a raw deal, and we talk about that a lot -- but what do the young men have to look forward to? A lifetime of servitude in poverty, perhaps stuck in a loveless marriage or, if they see TTATT, one torn with sorrow and disruption in spite of the love..... AND if they are LUCKY (lol), the opportunity to let the WTS suck the life from their souls. Indeed.
t
