Men are not looking forward to becoming Elders or Ministerial Servants

by Hidden-Window 44 Replies latest jw friends

  • TD
    TD

    I'm curious what everybody thinks on this. Is this a purely a JW phenomenon or part of a larger social phenomenon or both?

    That there is a malaise among young men has become fairly well documented of late.

    They don't have the interest in education, careers, marriage, family, home ownership or any of the other traditional milestones we associate with adults that previous generations did.

    Could the lack of ambition among JW males be part of this? Or have they simply wised up and now recognize a prison treadmill when they see one? --Perhaps from seeing what it did to their fathers, since many are born-ins?

  • OneEyedJoe
    OneEyedJoe

    This was the general rule in my area. If you were a young man who (1) avoided getting into serious trouble with the elders (2) was regular at all meetings and (3) put in at least 10 hours a month in field service, you'd make ministerial servant by 20/21.

    Maybe I was just always in the wrong croud, but I didn't know many young pioneers and everyone I grew up with that didn't get in trouble where MSes in their mid-late 20s. There's one uber-dub in the group, though, that was made an MS at 18, elder at 22 or 23. Man did that do a number on his ego. Its rare that I'll encounter anyone with a way of speaking that equals his in pretension.

    I was publically reproved for drinking when I was 20 or 21. I can't remember the exact year anymore. In any event, I went from feeling like some giant stud to feeling like an outcast. My reputation had been destroyed. I began dating a girl a few years after my reproval and it was going great until her family found out I'd been reproved. You'd have thought her dauther was dating a drug-dealing, gang-banger with a felony conviction. It was awful.

    A little off-topic, but it always struck me as shameful the way people would treat someone who'd been reproved, even if it had been years prior. Years ago I knew a girl that started dating some former bethelite that had been reproved about a year prior (of course, no one knew what for, but EVERYONE assumed it was fornication). A number of people questioned her choice because he'd been reproved. The contrast between this behavior and Jesus' words to forgive your brother 77 times (as well as many other oft-cited principles on forgiveness) was quite stark.

  • OneEyedJoe
    OneEyedJoe

    I'm curious what everybody thinks on this. Is this a purely JW phenomenon or part of a larger social phenomenon or both?

    That there is a malaise among young men has become fairly well documented of late.

    They don't have the interest in education, careers, marriage, family, home ownership or any of the other traditional milestones we associate with adults that previous generations did.

    Could the lack of ambition among JW males be part of this? Or have they simply wised up and recognize a prison treadmill when they see one?

    When talking about this topic, I always have to remember something I heard a long time ago: "Every generation thinks the one before it is old-fashioned, and the one after is doomed." Not sure if this is some famous quote, but it's quite accurate. We tend to white-wash our own past and view the current youth through the lense of our current understanding of the world. This leads to a skewed perspective, which then leads us to confirmation bias - only picking up on evidence that today's youth are worthless humans and those older than us are hopelessly out of touch.

    My personal theory is that the apathy in JW ranks is due to the combination of a number of factors:

    1. Decline of productivity of the ministry - even if they're not consciously aware, it's been a long time for most JWs since the last time they had a productive bible study with anyone. This is discouraging. Even on the service meeting, the "good experiences" related almost invariably end with "we had a good conversation, even though they didn't take the magazines" or something else, whereas they used to end with "I started a bible study." Morale is down because of this, and this is probably a large part of the motivation for the numerous tract campaigns - they figure if they can get the JWs to the point where they're told not to start long conversations, they won't find it as demoralizing when they don't.

    2. Somewhat related to #1, the world at large is becoming more secular. In any given day, a JW's faith is assaulted from many angles - science (evolution, cosmology, and archeology especially), increased connectivity to good people that aren't JWs, increased connectivity with JWs that may have left/faded, TVs shows and movies about scientologists and mormon/LDS cults, and a general disgust with evangelical christians. In response to all this, it's much easier to just not talk about being a JW with anyone. Any open/honest conversation would lead them to question their faith, and that's something that many are afraid to do. The only time they talk JW stuff is in groups that are exclusively JW, or in service. Outside of that, they don't want to do it. When they don't live it 100% of the time, it's harder to be zealous and to want to do it more, because they're probably happier when they don't have thier JW hat on.

    3. This generation hasn't had their 1975 style fiasco. Failed predictions like that (and 1914-1925) do 2 things: weed out fence sitters and force those who remain to double-down and become more zealous. The net result is that you have a much higher percentage of people who are going to "reach out" for priveledges.

    4. These days time is at a premium. There's always something that you can do to entertain yourself, and boredom isn't tolerated for more than a few minutes. In service, it's looked down upon to be playing angry birds on your phone while in the car, so it's super boring. The boredom of service is making a greater impact on the zeal of the younger generation than it did on mine (and I'm not that old at 30).

    There's probably more to it still, and the culture of today's youth probably doesn't help much (and that's partially encompassed in point #4) but I don't think that's the sole problem.

  • looter
    looter

    This will continue being the case for long term. A born-in may have his life dream to become and elder and serve at bethel or bethal. Then by the time he is 19, his life dream is to get a tattoo. I truely think there are more people having doubts than ever. And with the internet's truths about wt/ jw dot org they will continue to seek the true truth. Replying to TD, it possibly can be a lack of ambition but you have to remember that they don't seek achievement because most of us feel or use to feel that everything is already achieved. They know God, Jesus, GB, and are baptized. I guess the only thing they are looking forward to is living in paradise and see life at the present as merely being recreational garbage time. But I'm not sure of this but you do make sense of this.

  • TD
    TD

    When talking about this topic, I always have to remember something I heard a long time ago: "Every generation thinks the one before it is old-fashioned, and the one after is doomed." Not sure if this is some famous quote, but it's quite accurate. We tend to white-wash our own past and view the current youth through the lense of our current understanding of the world. This leads to a skewed perspective, which then leads us to confirmation bias - only picking up on evidence that today's youth are worthless humans and those older than us are hopelessly out of touch.

    I appreciate the reply, OEJ, but I don't usually shoot from the hip, especially on a forum like this.

    That young men are earning college degrees in decreasing numbers is a fact. That young men are earning degrees in fewer numbers than young women today is a fact. That young men are increasingly disillusioned with marriage and family is a fact. That young men are living with their parents longer than both their predecessors and young women today is a fact. There are articles on the phenomenon of pre-adulthood everywhere from Forbes to The Wall Street Journal to Psychology Today and there are entire books on the subject. Especially in Japan, nobody seriously questions this anymore and the discussion has moved on to how we as a society may be failing our young men.

    This is no more a generational criticism than it is to point out that young ladies are still underrepresented in STEM fields.


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