My mom (a JW) watched the Dateline program. I asked her the next day what she thought of it. She told me that Erica was not a JW and that is why they did not support her in court. But my mom said she could see both sides. Which, for her, is a step. Of course, she had to inform me that she was going to the meeting tonight! As if I didn't know. Here is hoping that something will sink in.
Dateline
by Jacinta 30 Replies latest jw experiences
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crawdad2
erica wasn't a jw???.......... exactly!!!!!......when she brought the rape charges forward, and the edlers told her to "just be quiet about it" cause we don't want to harm this "fine elders reputation"........and she didn't keep her mouth shut about being raped by an elder.......... she was then slandered, and deemed an apostate.
talks were given, (not mentioning names)rumors were started, and the whole cong was made to be aware that she was an "apostate".so when she went to court, the brain-washed jws weren't focusing on the issue, "RAPE, BY AN ELDER"........they were more focused on what the corrupt elders had spoon fed them about erica.
so they supported the "JW RAPIST ELDER"......cause he is a brother, but the girl that got repeatedly raped was just an apostate.
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MikeMusto
Crawdad-Jacinta,
I am well acquinted with the local congergation in Othello. Unfortunately the Elders were following the counsel that was
givent to them by Headquarters.1. The elders in Othello are not corrupt. They in actuallity
had no idea how to handle the case. They did what they were
trained to do, and that is follow the direction of the Society.
Although the Elders made bad choices by allowing M. Beliz to
go out in the field, they are in essence sincere persons. Erica
had gone on the radio at that time and stated that JW's had
abandoned her. This is all the local members of the congergation
heard. Because of the way judicial cases are handled, any information
that is put out is usually bad. In this case the bad information
was the truth.2.Most in the congergation didn't want anything to do with the
case. The long timers were ashamed of Beliz and felt he deserved to go
to jail. They were even more disturbed when the initial decision
was overturned and he decided to pursue it. -
mikctr
Please bear with me and give me HONEST feedback. I'm looking at this situation as if there are two distinct entities here: 1) The Law and 2) A religeous organizaions (ALL of them). I don't see that what the Watchtower does is any different than what any other organization would do - other than it does not allow the offender to either maintain or ATTAIN privileges in the congregation. If they're not under a law that requires them to report, then why down THEM for their policies instead of going to local legislature and having the reporting requirements changed? ALL religeons are protected uder the same laws of confidentiality between "clergy" and "parishioners". I agree that child molestation is a serious problem. As a survivor, I can't BEGIN to explain my stand on that. From the standpoint of ANY "CHRISTIAN", I would be under obligation to accept and support a repentant "brother" - not let them baby-sit....
I've had a very difficult time dealing with my abuse and there's still a lot of anger there. I don't WANT it there, but it is. I've also done some lousy things in my life that as a Christian, I'm thankful that we're not the judges. I've learned how Justice and Mercy go together. Under LAW, we should all be hanged. Tempered by Mercy, we have a CHANCE to change... "Grace"? "'UNDESERVED' kindness"? Fer sher.... All I can do is learn and apply and do better. What more 'chance' do any of us deserve? "Good people do bad things sometimes". Where would ANY of us be if we could no longer look at ourselves as 'good people' who have made mistakes, but were damned by society and our own 'brothers'? Is there ANY hope for a child molester? Murderer? Rapist? Enron? Isn't that what "Christianity" is all about? Hope? It doesn't tell us to be stupid or to ignor, but to be wise and cautious. Real challenge, huh? More of a challenge when it hits home, wherever that is.
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MikeMusto
1. The WTS claims to be the sole channel of God. Thus they
elevate themselves above other religious organizations. Why would
they want to follow the practices of other churces? As such they
should be beyond reproach.2. Another issue is that of a victim being subject to disciplinary
action by the elder body if they do go public. This, will and
does bring reproach upon Jehovahs name. Why would anyone want to
willingly do that. Get the picture? -
mikctr
I don't see where their claims of 'sole channel' has bearing on what I was talking about. 'Sole channel' or not, they still live in the same world as the others and are under the same laws - which, from what I've seen, they, as a group, uphold. The big scandal lately with the Catholic Church comes from holding a known offender in a position of authority and INTENTIONALLY covering it, thus subjecting more to the same offenses. I don't see that happening in the way the WatchTower handles the same situations (and ALL organizations have them...). I have yet to see where an 'Elder' was a known offender and was moved in 'good standing' to another congregation to hide the fact. I'd say there is a BIG and OBVIOUS difference. I would objectively have to say that the WT is obviously NOT following the practices of other churches in this.
The rest of what you're saying about being subject to 'disciplinary action' if they go public, I don't know. Unless you've actually BEEN there... I would question whether a person 'going public' means, by definition, going to the police, or going to the press. There are ways of handling things without sensationalizing. (boy could I get into trouble for that one...). I don't see that the WT policy does not allow for that freedom and right of a victim - at least in any written documentation I've seen (or anything I've heard). For me, it be hard to not go to the press.... Once you finally have enough voice to deal with being abused, you want to SCREAM it so EVERYONE will know. There is a lot of anger. Justifiably so....
Like I said, it would be out of the character that I've seen for someone to 'disciplined' for carying out their rights in a situation like that.
What a wonderful thing it would be for an abuser to be genuinely sorry for what he/she has done, repent of it (including taking action to LEARN how to deal with it, taking repsonsiblity in order to stop the abuse), ask for forgiveness - and find it - and NOT HAVE to go to prison for it! Maybe in a perfect world.... Sometimes in the world we've got in some circumstances..... What is it we're looking for here? Justice? Fry 'em all!! But we should all watch out for the frying pan AND the flames, people.... Any one of us is next - if you're not already there....lol.
If the people who abused me were to walk up to me and confront THEIR problem, showing evidence that they understood they went wrong and were working to correct it (and had in place a system for help should they head in the wrong direction), what would/should I do? Toughie..... "Forgive us our debts AS we forgive our debtors"? Ouch.... I guess IF I were following the bible and wanted to accept that 'grace' or 'undeserved kindness' myself I would need to be willing to forgive. On the other hand, it is still within my rights to forgive them freely as I let the court system deal out the justice it sees fit. My choice and not one to be questioned.
Possibly causing a ruckus within a congregation with the intent of division would be a different matter. But then, there's usually TWO sides to EVERY story - and then there's the truth.... Hey, look at OJ Simpson....
Thanks for the reply.
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out4good3
Hey !!!!
Get of OJ's Back !!!!!!!
(snicker.....snicker)
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Carmel
There are two different issues here. One is the offended persons right and in some cases need to forgive the perpetrator. The other is what society defines as an obligation to protect society (ie other defensless children) from offenders, which, evidence shows, are unlikely to modifiy their behavior unless drastic action ensues. Where the society is derilect is thinking their window washing, carpet cleaning elders with absolutely no training and blindly following others of the same ilk, are claiming to replace civil authorities proper right to act.
In all the above exchange, its amazing how little is said about support for the known victim. That, my friends, speaks louder than all the legalistic twisting in the wind of friend Brown and the legal department.
carmel
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mikctr
Do JWs believe it is the RESPONSIBILITY of the WT to 'PROTECT' them? From what I've seen and heard from them, they make it clear that 'wisdom' on the part of individuals serves as protection and their responsibility is to keep the 'congregations' clean. The carpets and the windows ARE their concern - lol - along with the 'spiritual well-being' of the congregation. Nowhere have I seen that they even WANT to replace the 'civil authorities' proper right to act.
What is it that people WANT? If it's a change in WT policy that reports suspected abusers (or KNOWN abusers), the only way that will happen is if it becomes state's law that 'clergy' do so. I would have no doubt in the world that the WT would comply - as they do in the States that do require reporting. The "Laws of the Land" do NOT (contrary to popular belief....) always 'protect' people (hmmmm... another example of 'governments' inability to provide what people need?). If we could have what we need by law and legislature, the WT would not be in existance nor teaching of a time when a different government would and could handle things in a way that was beneficial to all.
If you believe that the government CAN do something to solve the problems that are EVERYWHERE, by all means, jump on the politcal bandwaggon and make your vote and voice be heard! Personally, having dealt with it (and working for a State Agency), I sure wouldn't put MY trust in any changes they would make. History would suggest for every problem solved, fifty more, some of which are worse than the originals...., arise.
I've not heard anyone mention what they believe the WT's policy should be. Usually, when someone is bitching about something with no solutions, there's more behind it than the 'topic at hand'. Usually pain. I say that from personal experience - and YEARS of it. Anyone? How about some 'policies' that would stay in harmony with Bible teachings on the topic of dealing with someone who is either reported to the elders or who comes to the elders with a REAL problem (not to discuss whether Star Wars is appropriate entertainment....). What do they, as 'clergy' do?
Let's twalk amoungst ourselves. Topic: What is it that 'we' want!? Or are we on a quest for 'control' over something that, although we should have control over, we don't have, and will not have control over in the world we live in?
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carolbell
I believe that priests and elders are just men. They should be treated like any other man that has been accused of this crime. I also believe that they should be set upon by the church or K.H. until matter is settled. By that I mean they shouldnt be counseling or going on field service.They have to live by the law of the land or Ceasers law.People seem to think that priests and elders are better than most men,but they are just men. I think they kind of believe it themselves.temptation hits everyone and some cant handle it.