Would a JW Elder consider physical evidence?

by ThatSucks 28 Replies latest watchtower scandals

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  ThatSucks

  I was wondering if anyone could comment on the likelyhood of a witness elder considering physical evidence of molestation. So far all I am hearing about is the 2+ witness rule and I would like further clarification.

  If Sally-Sue's parents walked up to Elder Marvin and said: 'Hey! Brother Phaux raped my Sally! Here, look at her! HER ANUS IS BRUISED!!!' What would the Elder do?

  Would he go on her word and her physical evidence and confront Brother Phaux or would he try to silence the family? Or something else?
• 

  Tinkerbell4125

  Everything would be kept quiet. My half sister was molested by my father and nothing was ever done. My mom was a devote j.w.

  I was physically and sexually abused by my first j.w. husband. So so many times I ran to the elders for help. I was told basically *not to provoke him* . He got PRIVATELY reproved. *everytime*

  Remember now, we don't want this public stupid, it would give Jehovah a black eye. Look bad on j.w.'s as a whole. Sound familiar.

  Don't EVEN get me fucking started.
• 

  ThatSucks

  Sorry Tinkerbell, I did not mean to bring back bad memories.
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  Nathan Natas

  JW elders are untrained volunteers in matters of the spirit and in maters of forensic crime scene investigation.

  Watchtower investigative technology is firmly based on "timeless" and "sacred" principles that are at least 4,000 years old. That's good enough for the congregation of god's people. All that high-tech whizz-bang jim-cracky stuff is from the DEVIL, you know.

  - Nathan Natas
  UADNA (Unseen Apostate Directorate of North America)
• 

  Tinkerbell4125

  No, actually it felt kinda good venting it out!!!

  No offense was taken ThatSucks, *your name kills me =;o)*
  I guess I'm still reeling from Dateline!

  I'm okay, Thanks!

  Tink =;o)
• 

  funkyderek

  Normally, physical evidence would be considered. If I recall correctly, according to the "Flock" book pregnancy can be taken as "strong circumstantial evidence" of fornication, so the same rules probably apply.

  --
  Bad times, hard times - this is what people keep saying; but let us live well, and times shall be good. We are the times: Such as we are, such are the times. - St. Augustine, 354-430
• 

  TheMatrix

  If Sally-Sue's parents walked up to Elder Marvin and said: 'Hey! Brother Phaux raped my Sally! Here, look at her! HER ANUS IS BRUISED!!!' What would the Elder do?

  I don't think this would be appropiate. But maybe if the parents took Sally to her doctor and he made note of that physical evidence, then the elders could use it against the abuser.

  Physical abuse is taken into consideration. For example, there was a case of a physical beating my a parent to their child. A family member spoke to an elder and told him that the child had been beaten heavily. The elder told the family member to bring him the child so that he could see the marks on his body, that way there were two witnesses to the bruises, the elder and the family member. After that the the father was confronted by the elder, and although the father minimized the incident, the elder said that he had seen the bruises on the childs back and legs and they were not minor.

  After calling the Legal Department, the case was reported to child protection services. They sent out a social worker to visit the whole family.

  So, as you see, in this case, physical evidence was taken into consideration and used when interrogating the father.

  With regards to your example, we have to remember that the child that was abused has gone through enough. Why would you subject her to so much humiliation as you recommend? It's better for a doctor to examine her, as I mentioned before.
• 

  hawkaw

  Gee, why don't you phone up Dateline and the WTS and remind them that there was an incident that the WTS could use as an example of where the WTS did something.

  Of course you will have to give a name.

  hawk
• 

  ThatSucks

  :: With regards to your example, we have to remember that the child that was abused has gone through enough. Why would you subject her to so much humiliation as you recommend? It's better for a doctor to examine her, as I mentioned before.

  What humiliation would that be dipmuffin? How is your humiliation brought on by the advice to contact social services by the society (you hope) initiated by an elder any different than a social services initiated by the elder on advice from the police? To the child it's the same humiliation, you dipmuffin.

  Your primary concern is not spreading the word that a witness child was raped by another witness. That is the ONLY reason you would call a service department with an agenda that goes beyond the best interests of the victim.

  We must remember that when justice is served, dipmuffin, it's not humiliation. It's VINDICATION.

  It's a nice idea though. Too bad it would be 'inappropriate'.
• 

  detective

  But maybe if the parents took Sally to her doctor and he made note of that physical evidence, then the elders could use it against the abuser.

  Are you insane? You're actually suggesting that "Sally" who has been violated by a molester, have her privacy violated once again by a group of men who don't fit into this equation AT ALL?! How can you not see that? You want the parents to turn over medical records so a group of non-authority figures can exact a fitting judgment on somebody?

  First of all, you obviously have a confused image of what Bob the plumber/elder is entitled to. You are giving far too much authority to Frank the electrician/elder. Wally the window-washer/elder isn't even remotely entitled to private medical records. It isn't his job to "use {info} against" an abuser. They are not the police.

  You're talking about re-violating a person so that a kangaroo court can kick a molester out onto the street (and into the lives of those who happen to be non-witnesses). There's zero concern for the victim here. And certainly no respect for anybody outside your group that might be harmed by the known molester they just kicked out to keep their own little club safe.

  How twisted!

  How do sleep at night, Matrix? Is it that you don't really love anybody? Anybody at all? That's pathetic.