Advice needed- please help!

by detective 15 Replies latest jw friends

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  detective

  Hi.
  Yesterday I received a surprise phone call from my jw friend. We met up and uhhh, it was quite the mind-blowing event. He said he hasn't been going to meetings and he doesn't want to be a witness anymore! I can't believe it. I'm shocked.
  He says he feels better about things knowning that he's come to this decision and he wants to move forward with his life.

  Now, I'm not naive- emotionally he isn't really disconnected yet, I know that. And, as excited as I am that he's come to a decision about what he wants to do, I'm also sure that this is just the beginning of what will be a long struggle. He knows he has to tell his family and friends and, though he didn't say it in so many words, it's clear that he's afraid that he'll lose them all. I guess he already has since he's recently df'd (within the past year), but it's a different story when you're ready to tell them you aren't going back.

  I think it's still too painful for him to let the floodgates open. He isn't getting too specific and is trying to soften what he's going through, probably for my benefit (and, well, ultimately his own). I don't want to push him by shoving information down his throat too soon. He still thinks they are right but that he's just not happy being a witness. He said he wasn't happy for years and he didn't enjoy going to meetings. He's obviously carrying around the guilt and self-loathing that years of indoctrination can produce in a person. I don't want to overwhelm him, although I know he needs to get educated in order to really get free in the long run.

  I know that this is big. It was definitely an epiphany of sorts for him. I know I can't push, mostly because I'm afraid that if I do, he'll shut me out again. This decision isn't about me, although I think I factor into it. Actually, I know I do. Obviously, I don't want to be the deciding factor, but I don't think that I am. I know he's been unhappy for years.

  On the other hand, since he's still emotionally enmeshed, I'm almost afraid to trust him. Afraid that if I put myself out there, I'll just be put through the wringer again. I've wanted him to just crack the door open for so long that now that it's happened, I'm terrified.

  I'm going to help him, either way. I don't abandon people, especially when they need me the most. Can anyone share their "stages" of emerging from the group? I'm not operating on much sleep, I don't even know if I make any sense at all, and I don't even know what I'm asking for exactly. Maybe somebody could just talk to me about this. tell me your story or offer advice, I'll take anything. Thanks!
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  Hmmm

  Detective,

  Are you reticent because you're Fading, and worried that if he gets cold feet, he'll hang you out to dry as an apostate? Or does he know your stand, but you're worried about scaring him with too much, too soon?

  Either way, it's probably worth the risk to have him read CoC. Guilt, brought on by doubt, is the freedom killer, and Ray Franz is the one who helped me get over the guilt.

  When I was struggling through my exodus, I finally accepted that first doctrine (can't even remember which one off-hand) as being scripturally and sensibly wrong. But I still knew that Witnesses had "more truth" than anyone else, and I felt guilty for losing faith in the GB just because they were wrong about one or two relatively minor things. Franz' writings opened up the floodgates for me, and I finally saw that there was no divine being guiding this organization at all.

  Hmmm
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  Guest 77

  You answered your own question by saying, "I'm going to help him, either way." Allow him the needed space. Your the best person and in the best position to know your friend. You'll feel refreshed after getting some sleep.

  Guest 77
• 

  anglise

  Hi detective

  You are quite right to be cautious.

  We gradually pulled away from the org taking probably about 2-3 years but I can only say that now with hindsight.We had begun to look at things with a more critical/discerning eye.
  At the time it was also just getting more and more difficult to do everything that was expected of us especially as a family with grown up children - 2 still at home then - both of us working and other half an elder.

  We had also seen much unkindness and hypocrisy in the local congs.

  Even though we eventually came to the realization that we didnt really want to be in the org anymore when we first stopped going regularly we couldnt have sat down and given anybody hard and fast evidence as to what was wrong with the JW teachings and philosphy.
  It was only once the physical shackles started to loosen a little that we even allowed ourselves to look on the internet for any info about the JW's,(even though using the WWW for other things including our business) the dub mental control and guilt is hard to break through.
  But even then it took time to build up a complete picture and for quite a few months after stopping attending completely I couldnt cope with even opening a WT or AW mag in case it "got to me again".
  We where still getting the literaure regularly as our children were still going to the meetings.
  IMHO it is like coming into the org but in reverse. You have to be able to proof it wrong to yourself and really be sure of that before you can even contemplate making a statement to others about leaving.

  Remember the counsel about a new BS being able to learn Matt 24 v14 or Rev 21 and explain it simply but with conviction to their unbelieving families etc and how to start with such small things and build from there.

  Help your friend to do the same with the information you can teach him about the org ie UN, 607, blood and Bulgaria, Malawi and Mexico,
  Dateline.
  Find out what would appeal and make the most sense to him personally and start with that issue. It could also be something more simple such as how he has been treated by them.

  Sorry if this goes on a bit but I hope some of it helps.

  Please feel free to email me.

  A
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  Scully

  Maybe what your friend needs is something that helps him identify his own needs and validates his own experience without seeming to directly attack the JWs or the WTS.

  There are several books available that can help accomplish this.

  You've already seen "When God Becomes a Drug" by Fr. Leo Booth. This is a good one, IMO, because it describes identifying behaviours in dysfunctional religious groups of all kinds, without slamming any one group in particular. It also helps a person to understand that even in religious groups that overall are not a threat, there can exist individuals who become "addicted" to a group's ideologies, and then become dysfunctional themselves. I agree the 12-step slant is a bit heavy, but you never know if that's not one of the issues he's dealing with, either in himself or with people he knows.

  Another good book is "Tired of Trying to Measure Up" by Jeff VanVonderen. The author is a Christian pastor who identifies dysfunctional behaviours in religious groups by classifying them as "shame based" and "guilt based", as opposed to healthy groups that affirm the individual's goodness, which he calls "grace based". Again, the born-again Christian slant may be a bit much for them, but I think the value of the information about identifying spiritually abusive groups far outweighs that aspect.

  Another book by VanVonderen, which is co-authored by David Johnson, is called "The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse". It's similar in its theme to "Tired of Trying to Measure Up" but it includes the thoughts of someone else, and gives their perspective.

  If you need some more titles, let me know either here or by e-mail and I'll be happy to list them.

  Love, Scully
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  belbab

  Detective,

  Just be there for him, allow him the space, for the both of you it is a dance, let him lead. Be sensitive to his moves, he goes left you match his movements, he goes right, so do you.

  The fact he called you, and you met and discussed what was on his mind shows that he is relying and searching and needs something from you. So just be there for him, and supply him with his needs.

  My wife just got off the phone with her JW mother 3000 miles away with their regular weekly call. Last week she informed her that a program (dateline) was coming up, a program about JWs. The mother said she would watch it.

  This week, my wife did not say a word about it. She senses that her mother watched it, she was uneasy, almost irritable. The mother never said a word about it, my wife just was her usual self, just discussing other interesting news with her. Silence, speaks louder than words.

  belbab
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  detective

  Thank you so much for all the wonderful advice. Just to clarify for Hmmm, I'm not a witness. Never have been, never will be. I got a laugh out of my friend yesterday when we were I told him I'd be a lousy witness. He laughed and said he'd already figured that out!
  Scully, I'm still finishing up Leo Booth's book. I've already found one of your suggestions helpful, so I'm sure when I check out those other books I'll also be pleasantly surprised. It's hard to get through some things because they are christian-centric that it can be a bit overwhelming. But I know that I can glean tidbits of valuable information in a variety of different places.

  I'm still reeling from all this. I know I have to be strong now and I'm feeling all jellied-up inside. I guess that's normal. I just know, that no matter what happens, he needs to love himself again. And maybe, it'll be the first time he's ever really done that. I have no idea whats going to happen but he does have a friend in me. (And he's crazy enough to think that's a comfort- go figure!)

  If anyone else wants to throw in some thoughts- I'm listening- big time!
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  larc

  Detective,

  I agree with belbab's comment. I would just let your friend do most of the talking. He probably needs to talk a lot, so he can sort his own thoughts out, which are probably somewhat scrambled at this point. Just being there for him as a friend, and being sympathetic should do him worlds of good.
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  Dawn

  He still thinks they are right but that he's just not happy being a witness. He said he wasn't happy for years and he didn't enjoy going to meetings. He's obviously carrying around the guilt and self-loathing that years of indoctrination can produce in a person.

  Since he still believes it's the "truth" take care not to attack the organization - this may put him on the defensive. Instead, point him to the bible. A JW won't have the same gut reaction to be defensive if encouraged simply to read the bible.

  A good place to start is to encourage him to read the book of John - completely, start to finish. Then you can start to point out the clear message in there - that JESUS is the only way. There is no mention at all about a group, organization, church, etc - only JESUS.

  There's a couple of really good things you can point out to him in John:

  (1) Jesus is the way. Over and over again he says that one must believe in HIM. So what does it mean to BELIEVE in HIM? Does that equate BELIEVING and FOLLOWING a church - or does the church have a different role to fill - such as being a place of encouragement & worship.
  (2) John 14:8,9 - what did Jesus mean by his answer? Could it be a hint of his divinity?
  

  Philip said, "Lord show us the Father and that will be enough for us." Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father... Joh 14:8,9

  (3) John 12:42-43 - can he see this happening in the Organization?
  

  "Yet at the same time many even among the leaders believed in him. But because of the Pharisees they would not confess their faith for fear they would be put out of the synagogue; for they loved praise from men more than praise from God" John 12:42-43

  That's the first step for a JW is to realize that the organization should not replace JESUS.

  I would also encourage you to read "Reasoning from the Scriptures with Jehovah's Witnesses" - it's a good book that takes the scriputres JW's use to support their doctrines and explains how they have been taken out of context. It also includes additional scriptures that prove what the real truth is. You can then point him to his bible on those topics.

  This way you're always only looking at the bible, no "apostate" literature that he may not be comfortable with yet.

  If there's any chance at all that he'll read Crisis of Conscience at some point that is an excellent book!!

  Edited for spelling
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  joelbear

  I did it all wrong. I succumbed to JW think and went through the process of being DFed and making grand announcements to my friends and family who were then obligated to shun me.

  If I had it to do over again I would:

  1. Do it quietly.
  2. Form a group of non JW friends on an ongoing basis while continuing my JW friendships.
  3. Get involved with a volunteer group of some kind to promote a feeling of spiritual wellness in myself.

  I would not:

  1. Proclaim it for all to hear.
  2. Go through the ridiculous JW disfellowshipping disassociating process.
  3. Not make a big deal of my new belief system to my JW friends and family.

  Joel