Advice needed- please help!

by detective 15 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  TheRedPill

  The hardest part for me about leaving was losing the "hair standing up on the back of my neck" feeling that I was going to die at Armageddon. Leaving an organization that convinces you that all outsiders will die is very difficult. CoC really helped me because it took many of the dotrines that I had questions about and broke them down for me. I saw another side to the issues. It was nice to realize that I didn't HAVE TO ACCEPT the interpretation presented by Franz, but that it was just another possible way of looking at things. As a witness, that is an entirely new experience.

  The other thing that helped me lose my feeling of dread was understanding WHY I was leaving the organization. I still believed in Christianity, morality and God. I just didn't believe in some of the doctrines that JW's taught. Many of those doctrines MUST be accepted to maintain a good standing in the congregation. That was the reason I had to leave, I couldn't accept them. I feel that even if I am wrong, I can honestly stand before God and say that I left for the right reasons. I left in my search for Him and the real "truth."

  I would say certainly show him CoC. It helps to show that JW's while, in general, are good people...they don't necessarily have the one and only true religion. My experience is that that is rather comforting while leaving.

  Best wishes to both of you. It's a difficult journey. Take it slow. Also, I agree with Joelbear...Do it quietly. There is no reason for him to force the ones that he cares about to shun him.

  Take care--TheRedPill
• 

  Valis

  hmmmm...you could club into apostate submission...use the Aid Book...nice and thick...or you could imply that you post to a certain board where he could share his ideas, thoughts, anxieties, etc...does anyone have the URL?

  Sincerely,

  District Overbeer
• 

  willy_think

  He knows he has to tell his family and friends and, though he didn't say it in so many words, it's clear that he's afraid that he'll lose them all.

  Not ALL, not you. He is going to need an ALL NEW support system of friends. if the feelings of isolation and the anxiety of separation can be lessened, it would aid him in his transition.
  
  Joel has shown a grate deal of understanding in past posts and this one is not any deferent, I would, give his advice to your friend when the time is right.

  if all else false try Willy_think's "4W" plain: "Worldly Women Work Wonders"

  The Great and Powerful Oz:
  

  pay no attention to the man behind the curtain
• 

  teejay

  Detective,

  Sorry to come to this thread late. Thanks for the link to it that you gave Danny...

  I wish I knew a little bit more about your friend. For example, his age. Mind you, I’m not prying for it – it’s just that knowing more of the particulars helps diagnose / understand at what point a person is who’s leaving (or thinking of leaving) the Witness life.

  You said that you are somewhat afraid to trust him. Did he leave you out in the cold before? In other words, has he gone through this same scenario before? <rhetorical questions>

  Personally, I think you are right not to have too much confidence in what he will do. Even among seriously disgruntled JWs, JW life can be very insidious. People can leave the meetings, become inactive and remain so for YEARS, but in their hearts they are still JWs and are quite loyal to the religion. Examples of this exist in my own family.

  Most of the people who eventually leave—not only the Witness life but the Witness mindset—do so over a period of years. There are several reasons for this: guilt, doubt, and just plain ol’ indecision and procrastination. One’s relationship with JW family members post-departure also plays on the mind. In talking to others and reading their stories, I find that my departure was pretty unique in that once the lights when on, I knew my separation would be complete and that there’d be no going back. Also, it didn’t take long for me to arrive at that decision and begin to act on it. Ray’s CofC was extremely instrumental in this, as Hmmm has suggested.

  Actually, suggesting to your friend that he read CofC might be a litmus test to judge the authenticity of his words. Loyal JWs would not read such a book for the purposes of gathering confidence on leaving “Jehovah’s People.” If he reads it, I would consider that a very positive event. Then, let him do most of the talking. Believe me, he’ll have a lot to say. I’d advise you not to barrage him with too much supplementary information. You want him to know that the actions he’s taking are all his and that he isn’t being coerced in any way.

  Whatever you do, don’t push; don’t give him 18 page printouts of Rutherford and Russell and early 20th century Bible Student history; let him, for the lack of a better expression, take the lead in whatever path he takes. If you go on the offensive against the Society, it will likely rouse his defense mechanisms and he’ll end up staying there.

  Take care, Detective, and good luck.
• 

  Introspection

  Hi Detective,

  I think the best way is to have some kind of support instead of just hacking away at all the things that are false, because you have to have some serious guts to do that and it should be the individual's own decision if you do take that approach. In any case, it is a bit unbalanced if you only take away rather than have something new.

  In reading your message I was reminded of a non-denominational Christian minister who used to live next door to me. I remember that although he knew I was a witness (since I was a good witness at the time and made it known) he refused to discuss doctrinal issues, because he finds it always creates divisions. What impressed me about him was that he was able to be spiritually encouraging without ever quoting anything from the bible. It was clear that he's a Christian and is very knowledgeable, but I think that's really besides the point. Whether he realized it or not, he was crossing boundaries even beyond the broad category of Christian. I'm not sure what your spiritual and religious orientation is, but I would say this is the kind of support that's needed, even if you are not religious in any way.

  I would add, though, that there's nothing wrong with quoting from the bible, especially if that's what they can best understand. (however, you'll note that I don't do it that much) If it's the easiest way to work with them, that's fine - but I wouldn't just parrot something without bringing out the core meaning, and to me there's only a few key things that's important enough. This doesn't mean you have to have any kind of religious identification, but if it's enough to make a point that you can agree on then it doesn't matter where it's from. I wouldn't make too big a deal out of it either way, whatever you might quote, it says what it says. I find that if you can bring out the common sense from a scripture it becomes more real to a person, rather than telling them what it says and then telling them what it means. However, if a person was in mainly for social reasons then this part isn't as important, but it goes back to having a deep connection with them, maybe one that's deeper than what they've had with the witnesses. Just rememeber that whatever you do, a lot of it is up to him. Even when you're there to receive someone with open arms, sometimes people don't see that. You're only one person, and while I think that may in fact be enough, he might believe that he needs the congregation. Of course, don't explicitly challenge that by saying something like "I'm the only real friend you've got!" Just be there as a good friend, after a while they'll come to realize that.

  *edited to eliminate repetition
• 

  detective

  Wow! Thanks so much for the great advice everybody. I'm still not entirely sure how to proceed, but I'm still trying to come to terms with the shocking change of stance on his part. I've known for a long time that he wasn't happy in the organization but I really didn't expect him to come clean. It's funny in that when he contacted me, he seemed pretty happy. As if a weight had been lifted from his shoulders. Maybe just admitting that he doesn't want to be a witness is a big release for him.
  I know that this is only the beginning. It's only been two days since he's told me and I'm thinking it's still a little early to tell just how this will play out. He has already mentioned telling his family and said that he knows he'll disappoint alot of people. He's already disfellowshipped but was working towards being re-instated. I suspect that since he knows he's been unhappy for a long time, he finally decided to stop going to meetings. He didn't say how long he hasn't been attending, just that he hasn't been and he's known for a long time that he really didn't want to be a witness. He focuses quite a bit on going to meetings and how he never really enjoyed them.
  
  To answer your question Teejay, I have been left in out the cold by him in the past. I feel like I bent over backwards sometimes to make things easier on him, even when it was to my own emotional detriment. I will help him, but I won't be able to be close to him if he doesn't try to release the shackles within his head and heart. I've been there before. It hurt. Alot.

  I know I need to keep the lines of communication open but I don't want to spook him. On the other hand, if I'm to really get close to him again as a person, I'll need him to research it at some point. right now, he still seems to think that his not wanting to participate is something of a short-coming on his part. In order to really trust him, I'll need to see him be prepared to address his fears. Telling his parents will be a big first step, but I will need him to try and speak to others who have been there, or read some books at some point. Not because I think I should be able to tell him what to do, but because I know that there are things that I'll need in order to feel as though I can trust him as a reliable person. So, whether he does them or not is up to him, but I can't be overly-involved with someone who isn't addressing his issues. I've felt the sting of that for far too long. So, part of this is about helping him. And part of this is about trying to look after myself as well.

  Essentially, I'm looking for the best advice on how to handle the initial adjustments he'll be making in his life and how I can best assist him. Eventually, if I start to lose myself in the process, I'll be asking for some serious slaps upside the head from you folks.

  You people have given me some excellent suggestions. Within two weeks, I'm hoping to lay the groundwork for encouraging him to start seeking out people/books/advice/possibly a posting board full of people who can better understand his struggles.