Help or advise wanted (page 2)

Amazing

SG: Ask her to prove to you that the GB are from God ... by what authority, by what proof beyond a claim can they say that they are representatives for God any more than the Catholic College of Cardinals, Pope, or the Mormon 12 Apostles ... all claims to be of God, God's church, God's true latter day prophet (Really "profits" is a better term).

Then, if she can't, get her to agree to get away from all religion as fast as you can ... and stop dabbling in ancient tribal beliefs and superstitions of our ignorant ancestors ... and start living modern life in the 21st century ... if God has a plan, he should be competant enough to reveal it in a way that is clear and factual ... and not this muddy method that has done little more than confuse, obfuscate, and cause wars.

JG

Thank you all,
I will check back from time to time tonight and some tommorrow night as well. As I go I'll leave you with a question,

If you were able to say one thing or show one presentation to try to save a loved one what would it be.

og

Well, Dateline isn't bad. Also, I'm partial to pointing out that, at core, JWs teach that God is genocidal and will kill everyone who doesn't obey the Governing Body - put that baldly, some Witnesses will stop and think.

Hmmm

While she's still in the process of going back, I'd do ANYTHING to get her to read Crisis of Conscience, by former Governing Body member, Ray Franz. Bribe, beg, demand, cajole, promise to do the dishes--anything! Do it now, because once she's back, she won't look at ANY outside information, be it Internet or printed.

Above all, remember that she's a grown woman, so there may be little you can do to prevent her. Your children are a different matter. If you allow them to be indoctrinated, you'll lose them, too.

Use your position as "spiritual head of the house" to insist that your children not have their lives turned upside down. I also liked Scully's advice. Don't let her use the automatic JW persecution complex. She's the one persecuting your right to raise your children the way you've been doing.

Sorry, but you've got a lot of pain ahead of you, unless you can get your wife to see the truth about The Truth.

Hmmm

SoulJah

The #1 fact i've learned from reading Ray Franz books & this board is along the lines of : If Jesus told us to celebrate the memorial of his death until he returns, and the watchtower teaches that he IN FACT returned in 1914 ; then why do the JW's still bother celebrating/observing the memorial of his death?

One day we'll all be together,until then I'm ready for whatever
---Tupac Shakur

out4good3

There's some great advice on this topic. I wish I had some of these people's insight when my wife was in the early stages of getting involved in this cult.

Early on the JW will work to divide and isolate your wife from you first. Then, if they're the NAZI elders I've come to expect them to be, they'll paint you as a danger to her spirituality and accuse you of condemning yourself and your kids to death for not accepting "the troof". In their encouragement to "seek the kingdom first" she'll be counseled that you're bad association and that she should have nothing to do with you.

If your kids haven't already been indoctrinated (coerced to be scared to death of anything that doesn't originate within the borg) ensure that the lines of communication are wide open with them and by all means, REFUSE TO LET THEM BE BAPTISED !!!!!! Allow them to have a life that isn't stunted emotionally and intellectually.

SYN

Don't let your children get infected by the WTBTS mind-meme! Save them while you still can!

They've been digging in the Euphrates Valley and have uncovered a layer of agrarian culture 8,000 years old, and an older caveman culture. Recently, they reached another layer of fused green glass.

JG

Okay here's an update My wife and I just had a conversation and she said that If I could show her something that JW's do that is unscriptural then she would take a look at some other things. The problem is What to pick to show.
Misquoting (not too strongly unscriptural)
Nature of Jesus (beat to death to well trained against)
United nations
Judging others
Hmmm any Ideas
What affected you the most?
What would you chose????

AlanF

You asked about the one thing you might do to show someone that their belief in the JW Governing Body is misplaced. A good way is ask your wife to look in the Knowledge book and show you where it is proved that the leaders of Jehovah's Witnesses comprise a "faithful and discrete slave". She will not be able to do it, although the book pretends to do so. The book nowhere argues that the JW interpretation of Matthew 24:45 is correct -- it simply says so. The fact is that it is dead wrong, as the scripture is obviously talking about individuals being faithful or unfaithful slaves. Get hold of some good Bible commentaries and see what they say, then challenge your wife to prove the JW interpretation. After skipping over this important bit, the book sidles past the question of who comprises this imaginary "faithful slave", and suggests that the people who are presenting the wonderful spiritual food to the reader, in the form of this very book, must be that "slave". That's their whole "proof", and it's easy to debunk.

As far as your wife goes, don't oppose her going to the Kingdom Hall. Do as Scully suggests -- turn her persecution complex around and complain bitterly about her persecuting you for your beliefs and about starting on the road to a family breakup by her demanding that the entire family follow her new religious rules. You should gradually accumulate a pile of reference material that proves how looney many JW teachings are, and especially how looney a lot of past teachings were. For example, until about 1952 they taught that Jehovah lives on the star Alcyone in the Pleiades constellation. How can "the faithful and discrete slave" ever have taught this as a truth from God? There's tons of stuff like this available online and in JW-critical literature.

As far as your kids are concerned, they're certainly too young (I assume they're all under 12) to get baptized, but no matter what, you should put your foot down where that's concerned. It's also a good idea not to allow them to attend JW meetings at all, and to begin teaching them a number of facts that will innoculate them against your wife's inevitable behind-your-back teaching them her religion. As has been suggested, use the Bible's teaching that the man is the spiritual head of the household to enforce your wishes. The idea is to make your kids aware of JW looniness and decide on their own that they want no part of this dangerous cult.

AlanF

Your wife wants to know if JWs do anything unscriptural? That's easy to show, but to do it you have to lead her gradually to the right conclusions by getting her to reason things out step by step.

A good example is to prove that the Watchtower Society demands that people not think. An article in a summer 2001 Watchtower magazine (I don't remember the exact issue, but someone on this board probably will) explicitly stated that JWs are not allowed to "harbor private ideas" about anything the Society has a teaching on. This should cause anyone with half a brain to run like hell from getting involved with this nasty cult.

AlanF

Help or advise wanted

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