Respect Your Elders!

by comforter 78 Replies latest jw friends

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  comforter

  ???according to YOUR THEORY if Hitler was alive today YOU WOULD SHOW HIM RESPECT AND HONOR AS WELL???

  Look at my post to Farkel for how I feel about the Hitler issue. Dissing Hitler for his practices is not the same thing as dissin him for his age. What does Hitler's gas problems or false teeth problems have to do with the Final Solution?

  ???you really need to look at the big picture- old age does not AUTOMATTICALLY GIVE YOU RESPECt NEVER FORGET THAT MY FRIEND???

  I disagree with you a little. Cultures in Africa respect elders because they are old. The person has not always been prasiseworthy. But at least their hoary head is honered.

  I would just add that one can respect the pope as an old man while dissin him as pope.

  ???Comforter, how do you feel about mandatory re-testing for drivers licenses every ten years????

  I think it is a wise and practical move. But ask me how I feel about those who criticize old people like granny for not being able to contain her gas or urine.
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  simwitness

  Respect has two faces (aspects). One is negative and the other is positive. While I would have trouble rendering Hitler positive respect, I would still render him negative respect.

  Do you even read what you are posting?
  You start off saying that we are to respect our "elders", and then you add (much later) that there are 2 kinds of respect and "negative respect" is still respect.

  Well, I think it is safe to say that most here show "negative respect" to the GB becuase that is the respect they have earned.

  I would not deride his gastric problems or his inability to chew steak. For such problems have nothing to do with Hitler's character per se.

  No, but they do help to "lighten the mood" and display accurately just how feeble they are.

  If I lived under his regime, I would also postively respect Hitler in another way, without obeying his dastardly dictates.

  And that my friend, is what they call hypocrisy.
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  comforter

  ???Do you even read what you are posting?
  You start off saying that we are to respect our "elders", and then you add (much later) that there are 2 kinds of respect and "negative respect" is still respect.

  Well, I think it is safe to say that most here show "negative respect" to the GB becuase that is the respect they have earned.???

  Let me explain what I mean by negative respect. Negative respect, for me, means that one shows respect by means of privative honor. When one negatively respects someone else, one shows negative respect by not doing or saying anything harmful to the one toward whom negative respect is directed. Now do you understand?

  ???

  I would not deride his gastric problems or his inability to chew steak. For such problems have nothing to do with Hitler's character per se.

  No, but they do help to "lighten the mood" and display accurately just how feeble they are.???

  Is that what the ageist comments in this place are about? To lighten the mood?

  ???

  If I lived under his regime, I would also postively respect Hitler in another way, without obeying his dastardly dictates.

  And that my friend, is what they call hypocrisy.???

  No hypocrisy at all. One can positively respect the flag without putting one's hand over one's heart. This act would not be hypocritical. Neither would respecting Hitler as leader while disobeying him be hypocritical. We must obey God as Ruler rather than men (Acts 5:29).
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  JT

  I disagree with you a little. Cultures in Africa respect elders because they are old. The person has not always been prasiseworthy
  ########

  I noticed that you didn't say ALL CULTURES and that is the point, in the culture that we live in your theory doesn't always apply as you can see by the fact that the GB are not afforded that respect

  so while some cultures may show respect out of age, in the Western world your age ain't no ganrantee that you will get respect if you have shown yourself to be nothing more than an Old fool.

  So it is like i stated:

  "old age does not AUTOMATTICALLY GIVE YOU RESPECt"
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  simwitness

  Let me explain what I mean by negative respect. Negative respect, for me, means that one shows respect by means of privative honor. When one negatively respects someone else, one shows negative respect by not doing or saying anything harmful to the one toward whom negative respect is directed. Now do you understand?

  Ok, so the "say nothing if you don't have something positive to say" rule... I can live with that... but other's do not have to... that is what "freedom of expression" is all about.

  Is that what the ageist comments in this place are about? To lighten the mood?

  In general yes. No one (or atleast not me) is at all concerned with the physical abilities of the GB. We are concerned with their mental faculties, however. By using these physical traits to describe them, it helps paint a picture of just how the poster sees them.

  No hypocrisy at all. One can positively respect the flag without putting one's hand over one's heart. This act would not be hypocritical. Neither would respecting Hitler as leader while disobeying him be hypocritical. We must obey God as Ruler rather than men (Acts 5:29).

  Hypocrisy is defined as "saying one thing while believing another", so yes, that is hypocrisy to "respect the leader" while "disobeying his leadership". You can re-define it any way you want, you can justify it any way you want, but it is still hypocrisy.

  Beyond all of that, you are mixing up the messages.

  I would think that you would agree that the term "elder" is very loaded in this context, since it also denotes a position within the congregation.

  So, to say "respect your elders" has two different and distinct meanings.

  Which one of them are you reffering to?
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  belbab

  Comforter,

  Remember Elie in the Bible? He,as high priest, allowed the ark of the covenant to be taken out into battle, where the Philistines captured it, and the Israelites fled. This is what it says about him: (from NASB

  1Sa 4:15 Now Eli was ninety-eight years old, and his eyes were set so that he could not see.
  1Sa 4:16 The man said to Eli, "I am the one who came from the battle line. Indeed, I escaped from the battle line today." And he said, "How did things go, my son ?"
  1Sa 4:17 Then the one who brought the news replied , "Israel has fled before the Philistines and there has also been a great slaughter among the people , and your two sons also, Hophni and Phinehas, are dead, and the ark of God has been taken."
  1Sa 4:18 When he mentioned the ark of God, Eli fell off the seat backward beside the gate, and his neck was broken and he died, for he was old and heavy. Thus he judged Israel forty years.

  Here we see that it speaks of him as ninety eight years old, and his eyes set, physically and figuratively (because of his foolishness), and he was old and heavy. So we see the writer of the book of Samuel pointing out physical defects. What difference is there in saying some old geezers, have indigestion, lost their teeth and sleep in senility during gb meetings?

  The GB has gone the way of Eli. Today they have allowed, through foolish decisions, to allow true worship to be captured in the hands of Philistines, figuratively speaking. They are supporting child abusers within the organization to the detriment of the victims. We may yet see them collectively fall over backwards and their people flee in dismay.

  Now if you wish, I could go on with other examples. Ole King David, for example, his subordinates providing a beautiful virgin to keep him warm his old age.

  Comforter, you want to provide a virgin to comfort the last days of these buggers?
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  comforter

  ???So, to say "respect your elders" has two different and distinct meanings.

  Which one of them are you reffering to???

  The context of my statements should clarify matters. I do not believe that any elderly person should be shown disrepect simply because they are old or even if they have certain character flaws. My use of the word is not just limited to elders in a congregational sense.
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  comforter

  Belbab

  Do not twist the Bible. There is a world of difference between narratological techniques and falt out abusive speech directed toward the elderly and you know it. IT is one thing for me to say that the pope has trouble getting up staris and has put on a bit of weight to saying that he cannot control his gas and he chokes his food down. It is not always what one says but how they say it. The comments made in this place have been derisive and not narratological.
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  AlanF

  Hey, people, isn't it obvious by its stupid phraseology and idiotic reasoning that "comforter" is a reincarnation of Hildabingen/whatever?

  As for the issue of showing disrespect for the old men of the Governing Body, there are two components to this: the fact that they make horrible decisions that deserve disrespect, and the fact that they are old men who are so ossified in their thinking that they are unable to think in ways other than what they've been used to for many years makes them unable to make correct decisions when faced with new circumstances.

  Comforter is dragging the red herring of "disrespect for age" across the path of truth. No matter the age of anyone who makes the sort of bad decisions the GB has made -- they remain bad decisions and anyone who makes them ought to be shown the utmost disrespect. Indeed, some of the current GB and their "helpers" ought to be thrown in jail for aiding and abetting criminal activity and for criminal negligence.

  When people get old, they almost always lose the ability to process new information properly. Saying this is not disrespect; it is simply an acknowledgement of the nasty effects of aging. Aging produces plenty of bad effects on the human mind and the sort of ossification of the thinking process shown by the GB is one of them. Another thing we observe in very old people is the tendency to want things to remain as they have been. That's comforting to them because old people tend not to like change.

  Combine all the elements we see that affect the decisions of the GB -- ossified thinking, hatred of change, longstanding arrogance, the belief that God is directing them, downright stupidity -- and it becomes obvious that age and the tendency to make bad decisions go hand in hand. One is not strictly the cause of the other, but each contributes to the net result -- the unnecessary hurting of millions of people.

  The fact is that there are plenty of men in Bethel -- some younger, some older -- in positions of some responsibility who view what is going on with the old geezers in much the same way as astute Israelites viewed the vile conduct of kings like Saul and Manasseh. But they are so steeped in the emotive thinking that "one must not touch the skirt of God's anointed" that they refuse to stand up for what is right and to "remove the wicked man from among yourselves". They, like most JWs, seem to think that God will miraculously fix all problems, and so they sit and do nothing. Such is the power of a belief that God directs one's organization -- paralysis.

  AlanF
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  comforter

  Alan Fraudbacker returns

  ???As for the issue of showing disrespect for the old men of the Governing Body, there are two components to this: the fact that they make horrible decisions that deserve disrespect, and the fact that they are old men who are so ossified in their thinking that they are unable to think in ways other than what they've been used to for many years makes them unable to make correct decisions when faced with new circumstances.???

  One can criticize, not respect, the actions of a person without dissing them for external accidents such as being old. I have used the pope as an example and my example is quite valid. You are normally disrectful to those who disagree with you anyway. So it is nothing for you to diss old people for being old. Go on. Lead people on the path to Gehenna. You think it is more important to win an argument than be a decent human being. You also sound like you woulda agreed with Hitler's solution for old people. Just because someone is old does not mean that they should be put out to pasture. Get a life, fraudbacker.